# Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025 "2011-08-17T14:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 163
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3242 "2011-08-25T21:53:34Z")
NETA: It occurs to me that **sangaman** should already have multiple defenders on this, if this is really the case. Hmm. **vote sangaman** I don’t like the “Name Your Top 3 Suspects” idea for the afore-discussed gives-too-much-info-to-scum reasons, but if **sangaman** is going to be a runaway lynch, it might not be a bad idea for everyone voting him to list at least one other strong suspect before the Day is out. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3243 "2011-08-25T22:07:36Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > I’m getting an anti-Town feel on NAF. I don’t have a reason for it. ☹ I’d appreciate other people’s opinions on him. I don’t like that he’s placed me on the Scum side of his musings. granted, my play is quite different in this game. I’m skimming more and not posting as muhch as I usually do, but the school year just started and I’m swamped. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3244 "2011-08-25T22:11:10Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > special ed is on your leaning-scum list too. I question whether a power booster would be a a Town or Scum role, and I question whether the Scum might have normally-Town roles. So without other info, I’m curious why you’re leaning Scum on ed. I’ll admit that while you may strongly assume that my power is as described, it really says nothing about my alignment. Though, In failed to submit an action last Night, it was randomized to an idlemafia regular. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3245 "2011-08-25T22:12:42Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > @ **PizzaGuy** with respect to **brewha** ’s latest post: On N1 you didn’t know your power. You _could_ have been Scum and targeted a teammate just to see what happened. It was speculated (probably on D1) that Scum might do just that, so they could compare notes privately and figure out their powers. I hadn’t considered it - but that is a very valid point. With the ability to freely talk to each other about who they target and report the results, the scum might be inclined to self target or target within their ranks to determine their powers. Sure it’s risky, but if all the scum did it and only one died from it - the remaining scum probably already know what their powers are. And, apparently it wasn’t that risky since Malahoth was killed and poisoned. I don’t like the idea of a townie poisoner. I don’t like being poisoned - since I know I’m town. I don’t like his Mr. Bossypants routine. I don’t like how he’s patting himself on the back for his “superior” theories and refusing to entertain anyone else’s. We know Peeker was town and he found him scummy. And I’m pretty sure any male who says Tee Hee twice in one post is scum! (ok not really this one) I refrained from voting earlier because with his constant outbursts toward me, it would look too much OMGUS. Vote AskThePizzaGuy ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3246 "2011-08-25T22:13:27Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > My gut instinct is that one of Pizza’s results is true, and the other is false. But that’s just instinct. I was hoping this exercise here would either confirm or refute the premise, but it seems to have done neither. > > In any case, I think the odds are that among pwnsall, Epsikey, and NAF1138, there is at least one Scum. Your analysis was nice, but you left out that some of the whispers may have gone to Scum, and therefore, the relayed results might not be truthful. ---
**Author:** ![Episkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Episkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Episkey)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3247 "2011-08-25T22:15:46Z")
> [@pwnsall](#): > > your role seems more like a wolf role which spreads chaos, but it could be a villager role too > > i would assume from what you said you are responsible for the naf wolf leak and not the one on yourself If I am paranoid, I agree it seems like a wolf role - infinitely worse for me to be than a miller or something. All it does is create confusion. That’s why I’m going to be annoyed at Gad for making the role if it’s the case. It’s always why I think it’s a much higher chance of being insane than paranoid, because that seems like it can still be a productive role once I figure it out. I don’t assume I’m responsible for the NAF message, as I know 100% mine is wrong while I don’t know if that’s the case on his. > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > \ > > Without knowing everything, both outcomes are certainly doable. So @ **Episkey** : If you survive the Night, please consider posting who you acted upon. Let’s see who if anybody got messages about that person. And so far, we still don’t know if you cause accurate (sane), inaccurate (insane), or gastard (paranoid) results. In fact, it’s still not certain you caused these results. I have no issue saying who I targeted, nor with having a consensus reached beforehand on who I target. I suppose it’s possible I didn’t cause them if either someone got a message about peeker (me being a mystic seer for someone else, they get my targets results) or if someone else targeted exactly Jan-\>Pizza. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **Ben** , I think you’re onto something with option 2 there. Picture a role that gives the target wrong information about a random player. Because that’s the common denominator here– **Jan** got a Scum result on a Mason, and **pizza** got…well, either one could have come from **Episkey** , I guess. To me, this role sounds more like Scum than Town. I dunno. The only thing that will clear it up is b]Episkey\*\* dying. Ugh. If he dies and is Scum, great–we’ve cleared **Jan**. If he dies and is Town, then **pizza** got a random result for **Episkey** from **Episkey** , and I’m not sure we necessarily know anything about the other message he got (although I’d lean toward it being true). Doesn’t seem at all worth lynching **Episkey** right now–seems like we need more data points before we do anything to resolve any of this. I agree at some point I need to die for more data. If I’m an insane seer it’ll say so in my writeup I assume and we can flip all messages my targets received. The problem is right now that would be exactly “Gnarly = wolf being flipped to Gnarly = villager”, which is already essentially confirmed by the masonry claim. In other words, there would be no information gathered. Again, I believe myself to be insane \>\>\>\> paranoid, as paranoid makes absolutely zero sense for a town role and Gad isn’t one to just troll a game with roles like that. > [@lilflower](#): > > It seems to me that only scum need make self-preservation votes because they have a much smaller team and each death is harsh on them. You should vote for who you think is scummy. If you end up the lynch leader, it’s because lots of players think you are scummy. In my mind, voting just to save yourself is only dragging out the discussion of whether or not your are scum for yet another Day. > > And here again, you keep blaming me for your vote. You need to be accountable for your own vote. I am not making you do anything. I don’t agree with this, for reasons others have stated. I know I’m town, even if I’m 90% sure the other wagon is villa, still better to lynch a 90% in your eyes to the 100%. This of course alters in certain games where you’re vanilla and think there’s a high chance other wagon is a village power role. > [@lilflower](#): > > God Dammit! I forgot something else. Sorry for all the super long posts. Please let me know if I missed yet another claim. > > CORRECTED CORRECTED CORRECTED LIST > Night 0 > AskthePizzaGuy targets lilflower > NAF targets peeker > Normal Phase targets Drain Bead > Mykbot/DuckburgDK targets himself > > bufftabby got no result (did not reveal target) > AskthePizzaGuy gets message that he was creeping around my bed > > Night 1 > Ed targets Scuba Ben > Drain Bead targets Scuba Ben > Scuba Ben gets two targets on Night 2 > Scuba Ben gets message that Jan is villager > > AskthePizzaGuy targets Mahaloth > Mahaloth is poisoned and shot > > Scathach targets Dancecat > Idle gets message that Dancecat is villager > > Scuba Ben targets gnarlycharlie > gnarlycharlie feels protected > > Episkey targets Jan > Silver Jan gets message that gnarlycharlie is wolf > > gnarlycharlie targets Texcat > gnarlycharlie and Texcat discover they are village masons > > BlasterMaster targets Giraffe > Giraffe gets message that BlasterMaster is villager > > Weedy gets message that Texcat is Villager and mason _[Could he be an eavesdropper? It might depend on the target.]_ > > bufftabby got no result (did not reveal target) > NAF feels protected > Idle feels safe > septimus enjoyed kindness > Ed got no result > > Night 2 > AskthePizzaGuy targets brewha > brewha is poisoned > > Idle targets Jan > > Silver Jan target Idle > > Scathach targets Ed > Special Ed feels healthy > Special Ed gets a complete role PM with power outlined > > ?? (power booster/doubler) targets NAF _[I think whoever targeted both Scuba and NAF is our doubler]_ > NAF gets two targets on Night 3 > > bufftabby targets herself > bufftabby felt a warm glow > > Episkey targets AskthePizzaGuy > > Idle is blocked > AskthePizzaGuy gets message that NAF is a wolf > AskthePizzaGuy gets message that Episkey is a wolf > PCM gets a message that he is the apothecary _[but doesn’t believe it]_ > Giraffe gets a message that pwnsall is town This is awesome. I might do a bit more with it, but this is awesome. > [@bufftabby](#): > > I would like to see some 2p2 players to weigh in on this. Would such a statement be viewed as PIS/TMI there? Sangaman is a tough player for me to read. His posts are always pretty in depth and thought out, and are typically rather long (though solid). I will say that a general rule of thumb on our site is ~25% of the field are wolves. Idk if I’m allowed to quote from that board, but under the general WW guidelines post I believe it even mentions this. I have seen this “slip” be made by people in both roles though - with the “I’m just assuming 25%” explanation when pressed on the matter. Though I still do wonder why Sanga wouldn’t just explain what he meant asap, I also don’t like just how quick that took off (again, prior to hearing about any explanation or waiting for people from his forum to chime in). ---
**Author:** ![Episkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Episkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Episkey)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3248 "2011-08-25T22:18:34Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Your analysis was nice, but you left out that some of the whispers may have gone to Scum, and therefore, the relayed results might not be truthful. This is a good thought as well. With all these messages going around, our information could be corrupted by scum receiving them. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3249 "2011-08-25T22:19:06Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I will say that I was told that I will have to target two people toNight. That was before Ed made his claim. > > I don’t think that makes him town, but I do think it lends credence to that part of his claim. I most certainly did not target you last Night. ---
**Author:** ![Episkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Episkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Episkey)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3250 "2011-08-25T22:20:42Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > \ > I don’t like the idea of a townie poisoner. This is a valid concern imo as well. The poisoner roles I’ve typically seen have been scum, with a town healer. I didn’t play the original mystery mash, but does anyone that did recall a town poisoner? Or has anyone on this board seen that? ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3251 "2011-08-25T22:26:51Z")
> [@sangaman](#): > > \ > FWIW I never saw the 6-9 post. I didn’t sub in till late in day 1 and was at my aunt’s beach house in NJ all weekend, so I skimmed over some parts of the thread. I was hoping to be more active starting d3, but I obviously didn’t get off on the right foot. I realized that I’d made that slip late this evening and saw some of the reactions it received, but didn’t post for a few hours because I was too embarrassed. It’s a blatantly bad mistake for me to make and I will just have to learn from it. > > I’ll be online tomorrow afternoon. I don’t see why a townie who made an honest mistake would have any reason to be embarrassed. > [@sangaman](#): > > I’ve had a bit of time to read over the thread, and here are some of my thoughts: > > This quote is in reference to Idle Thoughts. I have stated why I think voting Brewha is a bad lynch today for strategic and game-theory reasons alone. I think it’s a waste of a lynch, and the town only gets a limited number of lynches before the wolves win. I definitely don’t think we should be giving Idle Thoughts townie points for wanting to vote Brewha despite the poison. > > If Brewha and Idle are wolves, it is just too easy for Idle to bus Brewha here. If we lynch Brewha and he flips wolf, the wolves have succeeded in making us waste a lynch AND they also get an easy opportunity to look like townies in the process. > \ We have no proof whatsoever that poisoning results in death. And in what world is lynching a wolf a waste? Oh yeah, in scum world! Who cares if \*\*Idle \*\*is busing \*\*brewha \*\*, if you think \*\*brewha \*\*is scum, you should vote for him. Are you not voting for \*\*brewha \*\*because you think he’s a wolf and we’ve wasted a lynch? Are you not voting for him because you think \*\*Idle \*\*is busing him? In both of these scenarios, \*\*brewha \*\*is a wolf so I don’t know why you wouldn’t vote for him. **vote sangaman** ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3252 "2011-08-25T22:32:23Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I most certainly did not target you last Night. You said earlier that you forgot to submit a target so it was chosen randomly, correct? When you got your results, did your PM tell you the name of your target? Disclaimer: I’m not asking you to tell us your target, just if you know who it was. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3253 "2011-08-25T22:33:04Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Tee hee > > 1. As others have mentioned, I have to target someone. > 2. Being anti town and poisoning brewha over and over, so the apothecary can cure him over and over, is a ridiculous plan for a scumbag. > 3. I poisoned Mahaloth. What happens if brewha flips non-town? > > Tee hee Don’t you have to target someone else? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3254 "2011-08-25T22:35:05Z")
> [@lilflower](#): > > I > > ?? (power booster/doubler) targets NAF _[I think whoever targeted both Scuba and NAF is our doubler]_ > NAF gets two targets on Night 3 > > bufftabby targets herself > bufftabby felt a warm glow It was revealed to me that I am a (the?) power doubler. Also, I did not target NAF last Night. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3255 "2011-08-25T22:35:22Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Your analysis was nice, but you left out that some of the whispers may have gone to Scum, and therefore, the relayed results might not be truthful. Oh that’s just great…confuse the issue with logic, why don’t you? It’s actually a very good point. When I do analyses of claims (which is how I’ll refer to these, even thought they are not role claims), i generally start with the assumption that they are all true, and work to see if I find a contradiction. If so, then that points toward Scum. If not, then additional information is needed. I have finished rereads on \*\*Episkey \*\*and **pwnsall**. I still have to do NAF1138, who has more posts that the other two combined. I haven’t found \*\*anything \*\*yet that causes me to scream “SCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM!”. Slightly more detailed analysis to follow once I’m done with NAF. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3256 "2011-08-25T22:38:22Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > It was revealed to me that I am a (the?) power doubler. > > Also, I did not target NAF last Night. So… a) You received someone else’s role, like PCM appears to have done, so you are not the power doubler b) You were redirected from your target to NAF c-f)4 other possibilites that haven’t occurred to me g) one of you is lying On preview: That actually isn’t terribly helpful, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3257 "2011-08-25T22:39:52Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I have finished rereads on \*\*Episkey \*\*and **pwnsall**. I still have to do NAF1138, who has more posts that the other two combined. I haven’t found \*\*anything \*\*yet that causes me to scream “SCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM!”. Slightly more detailed analysis to follow once I’m done with NAF. I have no idea why the word “anything” was bolded there…the bold tags should have been around “NAF1138” ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3258 "2011-08-25T22:40:54Z")
A few other thoughts on the results: Night 0 AskthePizzaGuy gets message that he was creeping around my bed [_ **I don’t think this is really a “result” per se. Plus, it seems that I would have been poisoned which I am not. I’ve been thinking that ATPG is the one player who got their action through on Night 0 but I don’t think so now** _.] Night 2 ?? (power booster/doubler) targets NAF _[**Ed knows that he is the power booster but says he didn’t target NAF. Is it possible that Scathach is a redirector? She targeted Dancecat who ended up sending a message to Idle but we don’t know if Idle was her intended target.**]_ PCM gets a message that he is the apothecary _[**But apothecary it doesn’t match what he believes is his role per the results of his previous Night actions**]_ ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3259 "2011-08-25T22:40:54Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I’ll admit that while you may strongly assume that my power is as described, it really says nothing about my alignment. > > Though, In failed to submit an action last Night, it was randomized to an idlemafia regular. Can you restate that second sentence? I don’t know what you are trying to say there. ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3260 "2011-08-25T22:42:59Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > So… > > a) You received someone else’s role, like PCM appears to have done, so you are not the power doubler > b) You were redirected from your target to NAF > c-f)4 other possibilites that haven’t occurred to me > g) one of you is lying > On preview: That actually isn’t terribly helpful, is it? Good point, though, that his “role PM” could be fake (for lack of a better word) like PCM’s although the likelihood of two roles that could give out that kind of misinformation seems highly annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/3261 "2011-08-25T22:47:19Z")
> [@lilflower](#): > > A few other thoughts on the results: > > Night 0 > AskthePizzaGuy gets message that he was creeping around my bed [_ **I don’t think this is really a “result” per se. Plus, it seems that I would have been poisoned which I am not. I’ve been thinking that ATPG is the one player who got their action through on Night 0 but I don’t think so now** _.] \*\*Pizza \*\*subbed in for \*\*PetW \*\*during Day 1. It’s possible that message was sent to him simply to tell him that PetW had targeted you on Night 0. Pizza would need to know that. But it doesn’t necessarily imply that the action actually went through. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=162) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=164)