# Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025 "2011-08-17T14:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/502 "2011-08-18T14:32:18Z")
**VOTE COUNT** Through post #500 peekercpa (3): Giraffe [301], [del]special ed [313][/del], NAF1138 [337], [del]Scuba\_Ben [379][/del], Silver Jan [484] Krayz (3): Drain Bead [489], Meeko [493], Scuba\_Ben [498] MykBot (2): [del]Zeriel [21][/del], TimeLady [24], TexCat [459] TimeLady (2): sachertorte [211], Suburban Plankton [352] Dancecat (2): Idle Thoughts [72], [del]Giraffe [250][/del], Normal Phase [497] Giraffe (2): [del]special ed [51][/del], peekercpa [286], Krayz [418] TexCat (2): Inner Stickler [473], lilflower [494] NAF1138 (1): Dancecat [53] Scathach (1): GuiriEnEspaña [359] LightFoot (1): Zeriel [375] Septimus (1): Askthepizzaguy [477] Silver Jan (1): special ed [487] Idle Thoughts (0): [del]Krayz [86][/del] GuiriEnEspaña (0): [del]Drain Bead [386][/del] Please PM me with any corrections! ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/503 "2011-08-18T14:37:27Z")
My point on MykBot was not just that he was promoting a bad idea, but that he was promoting a bad idea _ **and** _ he should have known better. I did not vote the bad idea right away, I questioned him about it, and yet he replied that it was “still on the table”. I waited for further comments from Mykbot to make me change my mind and then I finally voted. I don’t understand why Lilflower characterizes this vote as “lazy”. Lilflower’s comment: > [@](#): > > TexCat goes on to say that Mykbot is telling us all to target ourselves every Night which he clearly is not. is a gross mischaracterization of what I said. It’s not even close to what I said. What I said was, > [@](#): > > Below, I believe that he is referring to NAF’s bad idea, but perhaps he is already trying to explain that his own bad idea doesn’t make him scummy? Though I wonder why he continues to think that targeting yourself is an OK idea. > > This is a bad idea from someone who played in the previous version of this game. Wouldn’t he realize that targeting yourself is a way to kill off all of the vig’s? And yet even after we pointed that out, he’s still recommending it as a viable option that he’d try himself. Looks to me like a wolf trying to get a few naive vig’s to off themselves. No where did I say that Mykbot was telling us to target ourselves every night. And in fact, Mykbot didn’t say anything close to that either. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/504 "2011-08-18T14:49:56Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > \ > > they just did. > > **vote giraffe** Not opportunistic. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/505 "2011-08-18T14:51:02Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Wow, you guys have been busy. FFR, Wednesdays tend to be bad for me, so I haven’t read anything yet, but I’m going to try to spend some time over the next several hours to read and catch up. That said, some initial thoughts: > > {detailed thoughts snipped for brevity} > > So, I guess my estimate would be to expect 3-4 attempted night kills. If scum have a hitman, we’re probably looking at the lower end of their numbers, say 6-7, and if they don’t, we’re probably looking more at the upper end, say 8-9. > > Anyway, unsure if any of that has been discussed yet, so I’ll comment further as I read through. As best I can recall, that hasn’t been discussed yet. It’s worth considering. Here’s another possibility I just thought of: There might be multiple Scum teams, each with their own Night kill. In reply to **Drain Bead** , it seems to me we want to maximize information overNight. I suggest players who are awful at identifying Scum or Town (such as me) choose their targets semi-randomly to improve the odds of more people being the sole actors on their targets. Insert: It just occurred to me that we lose information later on about who targeted whom; Dead players tell no tales about their actions. So there’s no way to tell on Day 5 who from the Night 1 deaths targeted whom; we will have lots of early-game uncertainty. Back to the main thought: It seems to me that for now, people who ARE good at identifying Scum or Town ought to target Tonight players they think may be Scum and avoid players they think may be Town. The intent of this, IMO, is for people to figure out that they might be a killing role or not, and choose their Night 2 targets accordingly. Opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/506 "2011-08-18T14:54:22Z")
Serial posting: 21 players have votes down so far (per Gad in #501). 14 players therefore don’t. I strongly encourage everybody to have a vote down Today, more so than normal, just because there’s so many of us. ISTM Day 3 or 4 is a good time to consider the usefulness of Lynch & Target Lurkers & Non-Voters. (Then again, that’s usually a good time to consider the usefulness of Lynch the Lurkers; this game just adds Night actions for everybody.) ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/507 "2011-08-18T15:00:09Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > My point on MykBot was not just that he was promoting a bad idea, but that he was promoting a bad idea and he should have known better. I did not vote the bad idea right away, I questioned him about it, and yet he replied that it was “still on the table”. I waited for further comments from Mykbot to make me change my mind and then I finally voted. I don’t understand why Lilflower characterizes this vote as “lazy”. > > Lilflower’s comment: > Quote: > TexCat goes on to say that Mykbot is telling us all to target ourselves every Night which he clearly is not. > is a gross mischaracterization of what I said. It’s not even close to what I said. What I said was, > Quote: > Below, I believe that he is referring to NAF’s bad idea, but perhaps he is already trying to explain that his own bad idea doesn’t make him scummy? Though I wonder why he continues to think that targeting yourself is an OK idea. > > This is a bad idea from someone who played in the previous version of this game. Wouldn’t he realize that targeting yourself is a way to kill off all of the vig’s? And yet even after we pointed that out, he’s still recommending it as a viable option that he’d try himself. Looks to me like a wolf trying to get a few naive vig’s to off themselves. > No where did I say that Mykbot was telling us to target ourselves every night. And in fact, Mykbot didn’t say anything close to that either How does that not add up to you thinking he was telling us to continue to target ourselves? And again, you are voting for him for a bad idea (calling it “promoting a bad idea” is semantics) which I think is lazy. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/508 "2011-08-18T15:04:03Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > It’s not to Bully that’s for sure > > That said, I had been toying with voting for Krayonz myself > > Since I was actually on the peeker bandwagon (maybe even started it, can’t remember if Giraffe was first) It’s not that. > > My initial vote on Peeker was to gauge his reaction. He hasn’t really given me a solid Scum feel in his reaction, but, I’m stil suspicious. > > Silver Jan, however, has come in, and basically said: > > 1. Oh my, there’s so much > 2. Commented only on peeker > 3. Cast an easy me too vote pushing him farther into the lead. > > So, it just seems like a lazy and easy thing to do. Something a Scum might do. > > oops, got to go make a presentation. be back later Huh. This is…off. From backing off the Peeker vote to the reasons stated for the Peeker vote to the vote on Jan. This isn’t right, and what’s more, this isn’t Ed. **Can I vote twice please?** ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/509 "2011-08-18T15:05:29Z")
Oh, for the people from other boards, stuff in green is used for in thread communications with the game mods over here. Since we aren’t allowed to ask questions to the mods directly in this game my bit of green is a rhetorical device in this instance, but I wanted it to make sense to y’all. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/510 "2011-08-18T15:06:21Z")
As for the vote itself. Same two posts as peeker highlighted: > [@Giraffe](#): > > Interesting. While it’s almost too obvious, this fits my pattern of typical scum on Day one (following the action but staying quieter than usual, trying not to ruffle feathers) so well that I think it’s worth a vote at this point. > > [color=blue]\*\*vote Dancecat Response to Dancecat saying she didn’t want to ruffle feathers. DanceCat argues she’s hardly been quiet, which is technically true but sort of misses the point of Giraffe’s implied argument. (I think she exploits a weakness in Giraffe’s phrasing to make his argument look worse than it is.) > [@Giraffe](#): > > Fair enough, I should have said “playing differently than usual” rather than “staying quieter than usual.” Still, reading back through your early posts, I’m not hating my vote. If a brash player were to find themselves Wolf on an unfamiliar board, this is kind of the by-the-book style I’d expect: post a lot, but about strategy and other safe topics, throw an early vote on someone for an anti-Town proposal. > > I’m sure someone will come along who is scummier than you, but I think this is a good place to leave my vote for now. If I have a problem with this it’s with the tone. Giraffe’s original argument was fine-by-day-one standards on its own merits and didn’t require the concession or the qualification about the earlier posts. And the last sentence makes my teeth itch. At this point I think that votes on either one of the pair are justified. I don’t see myself voting for peeker. ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/511 "2011-08-18T15:09:56Z")
I’m still thinking on a vote. Most of my inclinations are on OtherBoarders, so I think my views are being colored by the cultural differences. I agree that **krayz** ’s posting thus far has been less than pro-Town, but I’m not convinced that it’s any sort of a tell. The case on **peeker** has compelling meta-game aspects, but I’d like something more substantial than his tone to base a vote on. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/512 "2011-08-18T15:10:40Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Not opportunistic. I am losing context in the multi pages of the thread. What did this post mean? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/513 "2011-08-18T15:14:16Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > I’m still thinking on a vote. Most of my inclinations are on OtherBoarders, so I think my views are being colored by the cultural differences. I agree that **krayz** ’s posting thus far has been less than pro-Town, but I’m not convinced that it’s any sort of a tell. The case on **peeker** has compelling meta-game aspects, but I’d like something more substantial than his tone to base a vote on. Do you have more to say than just this at this juncture? Even without a vote? I appreciate you weighing in on Peek, and I appreciate your hesitation to vote for OBs on a kneejerk (I am probably being to soft on some of them for similar reasons) but this post doesn’t say a whole heck of a lot about what you are thinking? Sorry for doing a bit of game spamming but I have my vote down and it isn’t changing, but I don’t think that it is going to generate a lot of solid information either. I have a major house project I need to get at least 75% finished today so I won’t be able to just sit in front of the PC for hours today reading and posting like I did yesterday. I got to get in my stuff while I can. ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/514 "2011-08-18T15:14:30Z")
Ok, I’m caught up and doing a massive multi-quote instead of making a zillion posts. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > One thought – if a player who gets hit by this _doesn’t mind_ being a target (low-value role, bulletproof, etc (or even wants to pose as such)) then they could consider the situation on those grounds. This is what I was suggesting when I said that the targeted player would have to use their best judgment. Obviously seers/vigs/angels/rb’s probably shouldn’t do it, but roles with less value can. It would certainly be better to lose a tracker than to have a bunch of scum knowing their powers. > [@Episkey](#): > > Ok, I’ve gone back and reread from my comment to dancecat all the way through giraffe’s vote to peeker. > I’ve already elaborated the purpose of my comment and how it was based on some Meta with dancecat and her typical feelings on the game. > > The thing is, obviously nobody from here knows this meta, so instead you have to look at it at face value. I can see how it can be seen as: > > 1. I notice dancecat isn’t excited > 2. I ask whats up with that > 3. Dancecat says she’s just trying to be non-confrontational > > And therefore deduced that Dancecat is playing differently than I am used to with the reasoning being not trying to stir things up. The next logical progression is “Why is she acting differently on the new board”, which can easily be viewed as “maybe she is nervous about being scum against people she doesn’t know and doesn’t want to be the center of controversy”. > This is relevant to note that while I’ve played games with Dancecat, I have not played a game with her where she was town. It will be become more relevant later. > With what I said above, I can see a logical thought process for this vote, and it is internally consistent thus far. > Dancecat explaining her reasoning for not wanting to ruffle feathers. I can confirm it can be abrasive, and think this makes logical sense as well. > Here is where I learn this WOULDN’T be the first town game for dancecat in the previous 10, and erases any worry I had about why she wouldn’t be more excited to start. > > I think this also follows his/her previous point logically, and remains internally consistent. > The orange part of this exchange is very important to me. Rather than “your vote is bad, I vote you”, Dancecat comes in and gets more information from Giraffe, and then uses the information that Giraffe is relatively new to deduce it’s not for scummy reasons. > > If Dancecat was scum, she had an easy reason to vote Giraffe here that would garnish very little heat and chose not to take it. As scum, I have seen Dancecat take these spots. > > Dancecat gets a villager lean from me for now. > > I think Giraffe responded well to Peekers vote here as well. Again, his defense/explanation is logical and consistent with what he’s been saying so far. It makes sense if he read my initial comment to Dancecat in a manner which I stated earlier. > > Once I elaborate further, Giraffe realizes he misread my initial comment, causing his entire reasoning for his vote to become incorrect. Rather than continue with his vote stubbornly, he gives another townie-like response to Peeker’s vote. > > His entire thought process and logical reasoning from start to finish in this episode feels genuine. I will consider him a town lean for now as well. This is a very, very good post. Too bad I can’t clear you for it, because I know you could do it in either role. > [@Krayz](#): > > **vote Giraffe** > > probably not changing. > > also didn’t read past this at all yet, but this is as bad as it gets. Read on, dude. And if you’re a villager, please start acting like one. > [@Krayz](#): > > Dancecat is a villager > > there’s your fakepeek that probably isn’t a fakepeek I really wish that you hadn’t made this post because it’s going to make it a LOT harder for me to vote for you, and it’s going to look awful for me if you flip wolf. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I don’t really like the votes on Peeker. To me, all of is posts are always a null tell. > I realize some are saying that he’s been more understandable (and helpful) in some past games (ones that I didn’t happen to play with him in), but I’ve always pretty much found him to be half understandable and half not. I followed along that one that he was scum in and I’ve seen him be just as helpful and coherent in games afterwards (where he was Town)…so really, I can’t see basing a vote on it. > One thing that is raising my eyebrow, though, is comments like these: > > I think giving ANYONE a “town lean” (especially on Day One) is baffling. I have no idea how many games you’ve played in previously (although I assume it’s a lot and that you’re not new to the game), but I don’t understand how anyone can give anyone else a town lean. > I think doing something like this is something that could most likely lead to coming back to bite you in the ass, if one is Town. Just ask **Scuba Ben** , in Cult of Sekham if you don’t believe me. : p He certainly had a “town lean” from me for most of that game, which turned out to be pretty unfounded in the end. So much for town leans being effective. > But to expand further on your post: > OR it could just as easily be she’s scum who was just biding their time and will use it as a reason to vote later. Or a scum who’s trying to get buddy buddy/cuddling up to someone voting for her (which, **Giraffe** did switch his vote). > I guess I just don’t understand how you make the leap so easily into Town lean. Myself (and I’d think/hope MOST players) seem to be suspicious of everyone until they’re either dead or somehow confirmed in a 100 percent way. > It really strikes me as being dangerous to assign Town anythings to people this early. > > You didn’t even UNvote me first. > > So you’re claiming Seer, then? I think this is mostly a cultural/play style difference. On the other board, we sometimes find it a lot easier to clear villagers than to hunt wolves. This is particularly applicable on d1 when the village has so littler concrete information to go on. But you can always look for players who are working hard and exhibiting a villagery thought process. The only way you can really find a wolf d1 is based on tone (or if they make some ridic TMI slip or something). > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Wow, this game is going really fast, it’s taken me a few hours to read. > > **Peeker** does seem to have changed his game-play since he was called out on it In fact so much so that I could imagine him jumping up and down and saying “NO, no, don’t vote for me yet” > > **Vote Peekercpa** > > My vote could change but he does look like the most likely candidate at the moment. Speaking of finding wolves based on tone, the above is an awful post. But Special Ed beat me to the punch: > [@special\_ed](#): > > **Vote Silver Jan** > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Before I look more in-depth at **peeker** , I wanted to make a vote that I might end up moving later, just to get my suspicions on record. > > **vote Krayz** > > Mainly for his series of posts between 426-439 (I hope I’m getting those numbers right). Noises up the thread, doesn’t provide any reasoning or analysis for any of his multiple smudges (or soft exoneration of **peeker** and **giraffe** ), and generally giving us nothing to go on other than “lolwolf.” I think this is good too. Krayz has mostly just complained and hasn’t made any real effort. > [@special\_ed](#): > > It’s not to Bully that’s for sure > > That said, I had been toying with voting for Krayonz myself > > Since I was actually on the peeker bandwagon (maybe even started it, can’t remember if Giraffe was first) It’s not that. > > My initial vote on Peeker was to gauge his reaction. He hasn’t really given me a solid Scum feel in his reaction, but, I’m stil suspicious. > > Silver Jan, however, has come in, and basically said: > > 1. Oh my, there’s so much > 2. Commented only on peeker > 3. Cast an easy me too vote pushing him farther into the lead. > > So, it just seems like a lazy and easy thing to do. Something a Scum might do. > > oops, got to go make a presentation. be back later Ok Special Ed is basically mirroring my own thought process, so I’m giving him a town lean (gasp). > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Went back to look at Dancecat. Strategy and fluff posts mostly excepted: > > I want to hear the answer to this myself. I think TimeLady responded around the time I was last online yesterday. > > On the NAF thing, this is response to NAF’s “Bad Idea ™” – > > “Therefore I think you’re scum” pings. That’s far too much to hang on such a slender thread, even if you honestly believe every word of what you’re saying about how bad an idea it is. > > For me, no. “That’s anti-town” is too easy of a reason for voting someone for it to mean much to me. I don’t think it’s remotely a good tell or a justifiable vote. Your backing off a bit on the basis of cultural differences is hard to evaluate. I would really like to see these other suspects of yours. > > For what it’s worth I don’t find this quote in itself to be all that incriminating. I’m more interested in your ability to find suspects. > > With this last post you’re reminding me of someone I know from another site. (Secura ring any bells for you, ATPG? The so very sure no one could possibly find her scummy and be honest about it bit.) > > Tentative > **vote: Dancecat** > for the early over-confidence on NAF, possibly for lack of scum-hunting relative to total volume of posts, and possibly for going too easy on Giraffe for the wrong reasons. Rescindable if the scum-hunting materializes and makes sense. I don’t think that you see what I was getting at with my pressure of NAF. My objective was to generate strategy discussion that would benefit the village and prevent us from giving the wolves additional free information. It was successful. I am, admittedly, having a tougher time finding wolf candidates than I usually do. It might be because I’m used to higher volume games, or because I usually play with the same people over and over (and over) again and there are so many names that are new to me here. I’m also trying to value my gut instinct less and my logic more, so I’m having to read much more closely and put in a lot more effort instead of going with my “gut feeling” and just running with it/screaming for whoever pinged my wolfdar to get lynched (which is my usual early game scumhunting “strategy”). That said, my top two scum reads right now are Silver Jan and Krayz. Silver Jan just made a classic wolf post (as Special Ed already pointed out, so I won’t repeat what he said but his thought process was nearly identical to mine). Krayz is usually a high volume, excited, hardworking player as a villager, and I’m not seeing that here. He’s just complaining/whining and not actually putting any work in. I think either is a good lynch. **vote Silver Jan** ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/515 "2011-08-18T15:15:24Z")
Lilflower and Texcat are posting in a manner consisten with their behavior as townies. They are both, to my eyes, slightly quirky players. I like the concept of soft clearing. I am soft clearing them both. ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/516 "2011-08-18T15:15:40Z")
uuuuugh I forgot to bleach. It’ll take me a minute to get used to having to do that. :smack: Sorry Gad. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/517 "2011-08-18T15:17:27Z")
> [@Dancecat](#): > > I really wish that you hadn’t made this post because it’s going to make it a LOT harder for me to vote for you, and it’s going to look awful for me if you flip wolf. Please explain fully. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/518 "2011-08-18T15:17:39Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > I’m still thinking on a vote. Most of my inclinations are on OtherBoarders, so I think my views are being colored by the cultural differences. I agree that **krayz** ’s posting thus far has been less than pro-Town, but I’m not convinced that it’s any sort of a tell. The case on **peeker** has compelling meta-game aspects, but I’d like something more substantial than his tone to base a vote on. I’m not convinced it’s a Scum tell either. But I couldn’t spot a Scum tell if it was shoved into my hands. Would you please elaborate on **Dancecat**? And lots of stuff to read on preview. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/519 "2011-08-18T15:18:35Z")
> [@Dancecat](#): > > uuuuugh I forgot to bleach. It’ll take me a minute to get used to having to do that. :smack: > > Sorry Gad. No need. It’s helpful but not required; I can tell when things are in quote boxes and when they aren’t. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/520 "2011-08-18T15:19:07Z")
I want to ask about Krayz from the people who know him. Is this how he normally plays? What is his play style typically? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/521 "2011-08-18T15:19:20Z")
Okay, just finished the first page, but I’ve already got a couple things to say. > [@NAF1138](#): > > Ok, so my first thought is that we need to start keeping a running tally of who has targeted who. > > Since no one knows what any power is yet, I don’t actually see a downside to keeping such a list. We (town) need information and we need it fast, but we also need to make sure not to clutter up the game with bullshit misdirection. The game is too large and is going to move too fast. > > Last Night I targeted Peeker. I used [Random.org](http://Random.org) to select my target. First… wow. Dude, BAD idea that seems like a good one. Yes, it provides information to the town that we might be able to use, but it provides even more information to scum. It runs a severe risk of outting important roles, particularly the doctor. I don’t think knowing who the doctor is helps the town at all, but it’s very valuable to the scum. Imagine this scenario, the scum target a player, whether the targets are given the day before or the day after, they can potentially eliminate everyone who targetted that person as a doctor if they die. Or imagine that person survives, they can potentially assume that one of the people who targetted that person is a doctor. Now, of course, there’s a lot of complications to this, like potential redirections, roleblocking, and all that, but with the additional information that scum have, including that they can lie about their targets, I don’t see how it helps. It’s the best read I see on the first page, so… **vote NAF** Also, another comment is I see the people calling out **MykBot** for a “soft-clear”. I don’t really get it. From my previous experience, though it’s counter-intuitive, it’s generally better practice to look for townie tells and eliminate them from your votes than to look for scum tells and vote for the scummiest. Consider that, especially on day one, any vote, with the exception of scum and possibly whoever got a night result, will be not a whole lot different from pure random. As such, if one can eliminate certain individuals with some decent reason, one reduces the pool in which that randomness is selected, thus improving the chances of hitting scum. That said, I generally don’t agree with publicizing soft-tells because they’re generally not particularly useful to anyone else if you’re town, but can be used coercively by scum for pro-town rubs when those individuals are lynched. However, considering the culture difference and that it seems others have said it’s something he does, if he reevaluates them later and they don’t give any credence to those rubs, I see it primarily as a null-tell. Anyway, more to come, even though this is probably all outdated later in the thread… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=27)