# Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025 "2011-08-17T14:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1002 "2011-08-19T16:50:22Z")
> [@TimeLady](#): > > well, when you have these wagons, you’re meant to give reasons for going for the wagon you choose, even if they are “weak” reasons. > > Those that vote without reasons get voted themselves. Everyone voting for solid reasons provides better evidence than a whole bunch of people voting for weak reasons. Weak reasoning is the playground of the scum. ---
**Author:** ![TimeLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@TimeLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeLady)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1003 "2011-08-19T16:50:32Z")
> [@TimeLady](#): > > vanilla only games are the nuts (poker term, meaning the best ever). The win% over 100s of games on the other board is literally 50/50, and it is a lot more enjoyable and strategy orientated than mishmashes where so much of the result comes down to how a few roles play (like if you have a bad vigilante, that can lose the game for you right there) > > They’re a bit more “boring”, but the thought that goes into them is a lot more refined than mish mashes, which just have a lot of dynamics going on. > > I like both, but from a pure point of view, vanillas are the moee skilled games. I guess I should addendum to this, a vanilla game is one in which you have villagers, wolves and a seer. the setup is usually 9 villagers, 3 wolves and 1 seer (or scaling upwards if there are more than 13 players) Maybe this is why we fake breadcrumb so much, since in most of our games (we mostly play vanillas over there) the seer is the only power role, and in a vanilla game good seer cover can often win the game if the wolves are truly terrible at finding the seer. When it gets to something like day four, and the seer still isn’t dead, and I leave a post that looks like this: VILLAGERS: Derwipok\* Essedarius\* LuckayLuck\* bsball wahoopride Wolves: officedog hifi browneyedgirl and then I get killed that night, you can bet your ass the wolves were looking for the seer, so you can clear derwipok, esse and luckay 99.99% of the time, plus you’ve given the seer an extra peek which may, at that point, have locked the game. ---
**Author:** ![TimeLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@TimeLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeLady)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1004 "2011-08-19T16:52:57Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I am going to toe the line of acceptability and use the most recent lynch as my example, but I am going to pretend I was the only one voting for peek and that everyone else was on one of the top two wagons. **Gad, I will knock this off if you tell me to but it makes things so much easier if I can use concrete examples of what I am talking about** > > I didn’t think that Krayz or TexCat were scum. I thought no matter which got lynched it would be a bad lynch. Let’s say that everyone else in town was voting for one of the two of them but me, I’m voting for Peeker because I am damn sure that he is scum. I am not going to move my vote to Krayz or TexCat because I feel with more than 50% confidence that they are town. > > Me voting for someone under protest who I don’t think is scum doesn’t tell you nearly as much about me as my refusing to vote for someone who is about to be lynched. That’s fine, and I do that a fair bit (more than most) on the other board, but I tend to go You’re all rETARDED these are TERRIBLE WAGONS why can you not see that DEAN IS A WOLF. I am going to SIT ON HIM because I am ANGRY AT THIS FAIL OF A VILLAGE 😃 > [@NAF1138](#): > > Everyone voting for solid reasons provides better evidence than a whole bunch of people voting for weak reasons. Weak reasoning is the playground of the scum. I’m just sayin’, you’re losing out on an awful lot of information late game by playing this way ---
**Author:** ![TimeLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@TimeLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeLady)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1005 "2011-08-19T16:56:30Z")
I definitely that this has been an interesting culture shock with regard to another style of play, even if I am a bit sad because I signed up for this expecting for a low post thread. Damn POGers coming over here and spamming it up. Some differences are just inherent from the change in game day length, we have to move a lot quicker whereas you get to take your time more, but if these games were run on this sort of time schedule we’d have stupidly long threads and a lot of disinterest late game. Some differences I think are interesting to think about, it would be interesting to see how players here would react to playing a game in POG. Would be…interesting. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1006 "2011-08-19T16:58:37Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I am going to toe the line of acceptability and use the most recent lynch as my example, but I am going to pretend I was the only one voting for peek and that everyone else was on one of the top two wagons. **Gad, I will knock this off if you tell me to but it makes things so much easier if I can use concrete examples of what I am talking about** > > I didn’t think that Krayz or TexCat were scum. I thought no matter which got lynched it would be a bad lynch. Let’s say that everyone else in town was voting for one of the two of them but me, I’m voting for Peeker because I am damn sure that he is scum. I am not going to move my vote to Krayz or TexCat because I feel with more than 50% confidence that they are town. > > Me voting for someone under protest who I don’t think is scum doesn’t tell you nearly as much about me as my refusing to vote for someone who is about to be lynched. The theory applies just as well for me and my vote for peeker. I’m not completely convinced that he is a wolf, but when the top two wagons are two players I don’t want to see lynched, I can vote for the third wagon (in this case peeker) in hopes that other players will do the same and we can avoid mislynching the first two wagons, who were both likely to be villagers (in my eyes). Our theory doesn’t apply just to the top 2 biggest wagons. Sometimes (often times) there are multiple person wagons. When that occurs, I would rather cast my vote on someone who has slightly been scummie or someone who has been anti-townie in order to help save other players who I think have been more townie. Casting my vote on a random player who I am even more convinced is a wolf, but no one else is convinced of, is a vote wasted. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1007 "2011-08-19T16:59:18Z")
I think the timing really is a whole lot of it. I think the most fun games (for me) have fewer players and longer Days. My personal sweet spot is about 18 players with Days that last about 1 week per Day. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1008 "2011-08-19T17:00:42Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Everyone voting for solid reasons provides better evidence than a whole bunch of people voting for weak reasons. Weak reasoning is the playground of the scum. When you cast your vote for a player, you provide your reasons. If X and Y are lead wagons, and you vote for X simply because you feel like he’s more likely to be a scum than Y, that’s a completely valid reasons. Your job as a villager isn’t just to vote for scum, sometimes you need to help save likely villagers, and changing the tide of a building mislynch scenario changes that. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1009 "2011-08-19T17:01:11Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > Our theory doesn’t apply just to the top 2 biggest wagons. Sometimes (often times) there are multiple person wagons. When that occurs, I would rather cast my vote on someone who has slightly been scummie or someone who has been anti-townie in order to help save other players who I think have been more townie. Casting my vote on a random player who I am even more convinced is a wolf, but no one else is convinced of, is a vote wasted. Possibly. And there you get into the question of “why does that person not see ANYONE else in the game as scummy?” Which is, in my mind, a point against them depending on circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![TimeLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@TimeLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeLady)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1010 "2011-08-19T17:01:15Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I think the timing really is a whole lot of it. I think the most fun games (for me) have fewer players and longer Days. My personal sweet spot is about 18 players with Days that last about 1 week per Day. Lord I think I’d kill myself if we had a game like that. Timing is probably a product of the forum. People who frequent the other forum are poker players, nearly all of them online, therefore we sit on our computers 99% of the time and have the ability to post a lot and move quite quickly through the game, or else they’re all college students who again have a lot of free time. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1011 "2011-08-19T17:02:09Z")
a basic game here would be a cop, doc plus vanilla versus all vanilla scum plus sometimes a godfather. on our boards, when i hear all vanilla, i take it to mean literally ALL vanilla. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1012 "2011-08-19T17:02:21Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > When you cast your vote for a player, you provide your reasons. If X and Y are lead wagons, and you vote for X simply because you feel like he’s more likely to be a scum than Y, that’s a completely valid reasons. Your job as a villager isn’t just to vote for scum, sometimes you need to help save likely villagers, and changing the tide of a building mislynch scenario changes that. I agree, but not this early in the game. This early in the game I do not think saving villagers is half as important as the information pool you are generating. Later in the game I might agree with you. Some point after Day 3 probably (though in a game this sized maybe later). ---
**Author:** ![TimeLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@TimeLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeLady)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1013 "2011-08-19T17:03:26Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Possibly. And there you get into the question of “why does that person not see ANYONE else in the game as scummy?” Which is, in my mind, a point against them depending on circumstances. we agree on that some players find scum just by finding lots of people who they think are town, and the process of eliminate the scum from it. this works better for some people than others, since some are just better at reading people town. In the end though, they do read people as scummy. Those that just float along providing no scum reads and no other reads are (or at least, should be) quickly pressured ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1014 "2011-08-19T17:04:37Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > \ > > you just had to bring that one up, didn’t you? What happened in that game, peeker? Did you vig-Kill the Doc followed by a claimed Cop? Or worse? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![TimeLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@TimeLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeLady)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1015 "2011-08-19T17:04:53Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > a basic game here would be a cop, doc plus vanilla versus all vanilla scum plus sometimes a godfather. on our boards, when i hear all vanilla, i take it to mean literally ALL vanilla. that would be a vanilla+ over there (enough extra roles not to be a vanilla, not enough extra roles to be a mish mash). I personally hate vanilla games with doc + cop, I think it takes a lot of the need for good play out of the game and just becomes an angel hunt (if you get unlimited protects on the same person, ofc) ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1016 "2011-08-19T17:06:28Z")
> [@TimeLady](#): > > Some differences I think are interesting to think about, it would be interesting to see how players here would react to playing a game in POG. Would be…interesting. Gad, hurry up and create another mish mash that we can bring these guys into. Our typical games: Much more players (up to 111 for the Harry Potter game, which had 20000 posts). Single IRL days, with weekends being 2 days. Nights which lasted hours, not days, for instance night would be called at 7pm, and the next day would begin at 5am. Our turbo games are something like 20 minute days and 10 minute nights. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1017 "2011-08-19T17:09:42Z")
I don’t know if it’s been posted but here’s the harry potter game if anyone wants to take a look. Just search for the mod’s posts (jk rowling) and you’ll be some sort of idea how it works. [http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/harry-potter-iii-werewolf-game-thread-1078004/](http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/harry-potter-iii-werewolf-game-thread-1078004/) ---
**Author:** ![TimeLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@TimeLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeLady)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1018 "2011-08-19T17:11:24Z")
> [@crackedquads](#): > > Gad, hurry up and create another mish mash that we can bring these guys into. > > Our typical games: > > Much more players (up to 111 for the Harry Potter game, which had 20000 posts). > Single IRL days, with weekends being 2 days. > Nights which lasted hours, not days, for instance night would be called at 7pm, and the next day would begin at 5am. > > Our turbo games are something like 20 minute days and 10 minute nights. Yes, well, 111 players is a significant outlier in terms of game size Vanilla games tend to run with 13, 17 or 21 players, vanilla+ with anything up to 30, mish mashes between 30 and 60 usually, with maybe three time a year outliers at 70+. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1019 "2011-08-19T17:13:04Z")
How do you define vanilla+ and mish mash? ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1020 "2011-08-19T17:16:03Z")
> [@TimeLady](#): > > Yes, well, 111 players is a significant outlier in terms of game size > > Vanilla games tend to run with 13, 17 or 21 players, vanilla+ with anything up to 30, mish mashes between 30 and 60 usually, with maybe three time a year outliers at 70+. I never even notice the vanilla games anymore. Return of the faithful was the best one I’ve played in pog, imo. In that game timelady was a neutral suicide cult leader who successfully recruited enough players (13 out of 59 iirc) and then they all died and she left the game victorious. [http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/return-faithful-game-thread-1062152/](http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/return-faithful-game-thread-1062152/) ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1021 "2011-08-19T17:17:52Z")
And I would love for the next day to end sooner than Tuesday, for a variety of personal preference reasons. The one that counts though is start my final semester on Tuesday and will miss most of the day, and I think I’ll be in class at EOD. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=52)