# Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025 "2011-08-17T14:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1182 "2011-08-19T23:59:34Z")
As far as I can tell, these are some of the possibilities (leaving out the possibility that I could be lying simply because I know I’m not) 1. I was thinking that maybe my power would be whoever I target, I get the message that THEY get from whoever they target (same as what they read). No idea what this kind of role would be called, if true. Night Watchman, maybe? And if this IS the case, I don’t know why it would say my Night action yielded no result. 2. Someone targeted me to tell me **Dancecat** is a Villager (since I voted for **Dancecat** for the majority of yesterDay). If this is the case, though, I don’t know how the person KNEW that they’d be telling me that **Dancecat** was a Villager or even how they were able to pick her. That would require the person knowing that they tell other players peoples’ alignment and had choice. 3. **Dancecat** targeted me herself (since I voted for her most of the day yesterDay). If this is the case, again, I can’t see her knowing that I’d get the info she was a Villager…so it’s just a good coincidence for her. Maybe her power is that those she targets gets told she’s Town? 4. Someone else was supposed to get the info that **Dancecat** is Town and it was redirected to me somehow. As for the possible combinations, either: I’m Town and DC is Town I’m scum and DC is scum I’m scum and DC is Town I’m Town and DC is scum It’s already been noted that 2 would be stupid for scum (I think it would be, too) and it can’t be 4 unless I’m being given bad information. That leaves 1 and 3…and I can tell you it isn’t three (for all the good it wouldn’t do) : p Either one, though, **Dancecat** is Town, so I’m pretty much going to think of her that from now on. I have no reason to disbelieve the info, lest Gad is a Gad\*stard Mod or there’s a type of role out there that has the power to lie about alignments, randomly. \*[sic] ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1183 "2011-08-20T00:06:16Z")
> [@Episkey](#): > > I don’t believe it makes sense for Idle to lie about it regardless of his/her role. > > 1. If Idle is Town, Idle would never tell us incorrect information > 2. If Idle is Scum, it wouldn’t make sense to lie as s/s because it would throw extreme skepticism on him if DC flipped scum. These are good points. I need to re-read Day 1, I think. And since I try to stay away from the computer on the weekends, I may not have anything substantial to say until on Monday. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1184 "2011-08-20T00:09:34Z")
**Idle** , is it possible that a scummy **DanceCat** is a message sender and sent you a message that she was town? Since the journalist, Silman, had the ability to overhear messages sent at night, I assume someone has the abilitly to send messages at night. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1185 "2011-08-20T00:12:38Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > **Idle** , is it possible that a scummy **DanceCat** is a message sender and sent you a message that she was town? Since the journalist, Silman, had the ability to overhear messages sent at night, I assume someone has the abilitly to send messages at night. In mafia, I usually go in with the mindset that ANYTHING is possible..so, sure it is. I did mention that possibility in the last sentence, but I find the most simple answer is often the correct one (Occam’s Razor). ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1186 "2011-08-20T00:47:12Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > It was both. It was an idea that seemed good enough that I proposed it. I acted on it to show that I was offering it in good faith. If I thought it was terrible I wouldn’t have suggested it. The fact that I was thinking to try to find ideas like that to suggest was to get the town rolling along. > > I suggested an idea that I thought sounded risky but had a potential high upside in order to get people reacting so I could get a better read. I don’t see how those ideas are mutually exclusive. I might be able to accept this. In my mind, if you have what you think is a good idea then you would propose that idea without other calculus, but I have to agree that if you were shaky on the idea then added effect of discussion might be what tips you toward posting the idea. The part I don’t agree with is ‘acting on it to show an offer of good faith.’ I don’t see how your giving information (possibly false information) is an act of good faith. I can easily see it as a manipulation. Suggesting the idea without revealing information would have been just as effective in creating discussion. But like I said before, the lack of actual night actions on N0 makes the impact negligible. I’m not seeing any scum motivation on this point. It isn’t as if NAF was going to be able to trick us all into revealing our targets. Even if he got a few, that process would have been shut down quickly as we discussed the idea and buried long before the ‘real’ action happened on N1. I find the whole situation a bit too slippery for my taste though. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1187 "2011-08-20T00:56:12Z")
> [@Episkey](#): > > Yeah, my premise was based on if he wasn’t. Your counterargument makes sense with the info given. > > However, the Silman kill still makes no sense for townies from either board to make for reasons I stated in my eyes. Do you agree with that part of my post? i don’t know **silman** from squat. i have had a ton of luck as scum kind of shooting into the “pablum” pool in trying to get a juicy holding their head low. so that just smells like a doper shot. because it works the way we play the game. go after the son of a gun that is not standing out and is definitely not making any peeks. kind of farcking odd. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1188 "2011-08-20T00:59:16Z")
and **gad** i’ve got to add this was an awesome idea. same fucking game but one group became humans and the other group became porpoises. am not going to make any conclusion about which is which. absofuckinglutely fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1189 "2011-08-20T01:06:48Z")
Oh well. **Go wolves!** > [@peekercpa](#): > > [Everything you Always Needed To Know About Clans | Mafia Games](http://psychopathgame.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=warren&action=display&thread=1361) > > i do have to say that it was my favorite mafia game ever even though it probably doesn’t meet the strict definition of mafia. It was a cool game and probably the most PMing I’ve done anywhere, mostly with you. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1190 "2011-08-20T01:26:05Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Oh well. > > **Go wolves!** > > It was a cool game and probably the most PMing I’ve done anywhere, mostly with you. well the fact that you were a Day killer and i was a Day redirector did seem to lead itself to a ton of trust. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1191 "2011-08-20T01:28:30Z")
**vote Scuba Ben** Someone upthread mentioned we should look at the voters who created the **Krayz** wagon, and he is the most suspicious of that lot, for jumping on quickly, off, and then on again, creating ties and using “me, too” reasoning and waffling. If he’s Scum, it looks bad for **peeker** , who was in the lead when the wagon started picking up steam. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1192 "2011-08-20T01:49:24Z")
> [@Episkey](#): > > I don’t believe it makes sense for Idle to lie about it regardless of his/her role. > > 1. If Idle is Town, Idle would never tell us incorrect information > 2. If Idle is Scum, it wouldn’t make sense to lie as s/s because it would throw extreme skepticism on him if DC flipped scum. Regarding #1: HA HA HA HA HA HA. Idle rarely lies when Town, but I’ve seen him do it. On this very board, I think. > [@peekercpa](#): > > i don’t know **silman** from squat. i have had a ton of luck as scum kind of shooting into the “pablum” pool in trying to get a juicy holding their head low. so that just smells like a doper shot. because it works the way we play the game. go after the son of a gun that is not standing out and is definitely not making any peeks. kind of farcking odd. I’m not 100% certain about that, peeker, because that presumes a couple of facts not in evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1193 "2011-08-20T01:51:22Z")
And I agree that PCM looks suspicious, but I’m a bit concerned that at least one person that I saw (forgive me, Tapatalk doesn’t do colored text, so I may have missed another vote, but I know I saw one) is ignoring 99% of what happened on Day One in order to vote for him. I know recency effect might be coming into play, as his was the last obviously Scummy act of the Day, but it’s one post. I’d like to see him explain it, but I don’t necessarily think a vote should be forthcoming unless his explanation is poor. My concern with those who are voting for him is mainly because it seems like he’s an easy target for that post, and voting for him seems like a distraction from dealing with making a real case against others based on the actual results of Day One. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1194 "2011-08-20T03:05:48Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Interesting that Mahaloth was both shot and poisoned. I assume that means at least two people targeted him last night, a vig and a poisoner. Guiri, I would think, would be a good target for the scum, particularly if they are mostly from around here. Is Silman a likely scum target? > [@Gadarene](#): > > **DAY ONE LYNCH RESULTS** > > Krayz has been lynched. > > Krayz, you are a **Bureaucrat**. Each night beginning Night One, you select a target. Your target’s night action will be delayed until the following night. You are a **Villager**. You win when all threats to Town Village have been eliminated. > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > You’re also in DC? You’re also looking around nervously? Both? > > I’m curious to find out how many people’s night actions created a swarm of butterflies, or some comparably random outcome. crap on this shit ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1195 "2011-08-20T03:30:09Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > crap on this shit huh? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1196 "2011-08-20T03:39:22Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > So I read this as Blaster Master is fully aware that bad ideas are not a good indicator of scum. Yet he voted for NAF for a Bad Idea on Day One. > > **vote Blaster Master** This is a misunderstanding or possibly just a complete miss of my reasoning that I made in the Day. Admittedly, the timing of some of my posts seems off, but I didn’t want to read 15 pages or however many it was at the time before posting, I wanted to start picking things that seemed relevant out as I saw them. Here’s where I commented on pressure voting at a later point in the Day. > [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Bad ideas warrant votes at certain times, especially early in the game. Votes are the best way that we have of pressuring responses from individuals so that we can get them to explain their reasoning and, thus, give us an opportunity to examine their motivations. After getting their reasoning, we can then decide to maintain our vote and have the additional ammunition from their reasoning, or back down because their motivations seem benign. > > Isn’t this pretty standard mafia practice? The key distinction is that in M2 I believed that Bad Idea = Scum Tell. Being brand new to the game, I figured that anything that hurt the town was probably done by scum. What I learned after that whole situation was sorted out is that Bad Idea = Null Tell. That is, scum still has motivation to present bad ideas because if they can get the town to do something stupid, it helps them. But, at the same time, sometimes a townie has a bad idea simply because they didn’t think through all of the possible outcomes or there’s some permutation they didn’t consider or whatever. Thus, the bad idea by itself doesn’t mean anything. This is where my vote came in it. I thought it was a bad idea and, in fact, I thought it was fairly obviously a bad idea. One can point out things and sometimes they get lost, especially in a fast moving thread like this, but putting a vote behind it makes it stick out and requires some sort of response. I’ve done this to great effect in the past; in fact, I’ve even done it specifically to **NAF** before. By getting him to talk about it, we get greater exposure to the thought process behind it and, thus, more opportunities for him to either reveal consistent townie logic or possible scummy motivation. I subsequently unvoted him because he realized it was a bad idea and abandoned it, which I felt was consistent with pro-town motivation and, thus, left the whole thing as a null tell. Either way, raising discussion about something like that is ultimately going to be more fruitful in getting reads on people, not just him, but also on other people that weigh in on the discussion. Anyway, the underlying point here is that though I learned that it isn’t a scum tell, that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth further discussion and isn’t worth a pressure vote to get that discussion. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1197 "2011-08-20T03:47:17Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > huh? sorry had some crap on my quote list that i couldn’t figure out how to get rid of. so i just dumped it. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1198 "2011-08-20T03:53:02Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > \*\*If he’s Scum, it looks bad for **peeker** , who was in the lead when the wagon started picking up steam. \ so if **scuba** votes real scummy like (even including me at some point) it makes me more likely scum. this is new one for me on this board. fuck line up right behind the he makes too much sense, he makes no sense, he is antagonistic, he is too antagonistic, etc. well i can add it to my list. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1199 "2011-08-20T03:53:16Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > This exchange seems strange to me for someone who’s not getting at something: > > Your question of “but how would she…know it did that?” certainly sounds like you’re getting at _something_. What’s so coincidental about someone using their power on someone who’s shown suspicion of them? I have to agree. This exchange with **Idle** bothers me on a few levels. 1. We have no way of knowing if **Idle** is being honest or not. We have no way of knowing without someone else claiming they targeted him, which may or may not be in their best interest, so I would leave it up to them to decide, particularly if it wasn’t **Dancecat**. 2. Even if **Idle** is telling the truth, we have no way of knowing if the note is trustworthy. Particularly since **Idle** claims it isn’t part of his power, we already know that there’s other complicating factors at work, so there could be redirections, misreads, or any number of other things involved. My point is, it’s an interesting data point, but I don’t think we can make much sense of it right now and it probably needs more context to be worth anything. I do think it’s good information for the town to share so I would likely recommend that if anyone else has a similar message they should consider sharing it. And if no one else does, assuming the power repeats Tonight, whoever gets it should also consider sharing it. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1200 "2011-08-20T03:56:19Z")
and for the off boarders i have also been voted for voting too often and not voting enough. kind of a catchall for the dweebs that don’t want to play. ---
**Author:** ![crackedquads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@crackedquads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crackedquads)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1201 "2011-08-20T03:56:37Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > As far as I can tell, these are some of the possibilities (leaving out the possibility that I could be lying simply because I know I’m not) > > 1. I was thinking that maybe my power would be whoever I target, I get the message that THEY get from whoever they target (same as what they read). No idea what this kind of role would be called, if true. Night Watchman, maybe? > And if this IS the case, I don’t know why it would say my Night action yielded no result. > > 2. Someone targeted me to tell me **Dancecat** is a Villager (since I voted for **Dancecat** for the majority of yesterDay). > If this is the case, though, I don’t know how the person KNEW that they’d be telling me that **Dancecat** was a Villager or even how they were able to pick her. That would require the person knowing that they tell other players peoples’ alignment and had choice. > > 3. **Dancecat** targeted me herself (since I voted for her most of the day yesterDay). > If this is the case, again, I can’t see her knowing that I’d get the info she was a Villager…so it’s just a good coincidence for her. Maybe her power is that those she targets gets told she’s Town? > > 4. Someone else was supposed to get the info that **Dancecat** is Town and it was redirected to me somehow. > As for the possible combinations, either: > I’m Town and DC is Town > I’m scum and DC is scum > I’m scum and DC is Town > I’m Town and DC is scum > > It’s already been noted that 2 would be stupid for scum (I think it would be, too) > and it can’t be 4 unless I’m being given bad information. > > That leaves 1 and 3…and I can tell you it isn’t three (for all the good it wouldn’t do) : p > > Either one, though, **Dancecat** is Town, so I’m pretty much going to think of her that from now on. I have no reason to disbelieve the info, lest Gad is a Gad\*stard Mod or there’s a type of role out there that has the power to lie about alignments, randomly. > \*[sic] I just got home from work and trying to catch up, but what I think is most likely here is that there is a randomizer. The seer targeted dancecat, and the randomizer targeted the seer, so the seer’s results went to a random player (which would be you) instead of the seer. Whoever really targeted dancecat last night, you’re probably the seer. Don’t admit to targeting dancecat. Note that more than one of you could have targeted dancecat, so it’s not 100% yet, but nevertheless your next night action should be targeted to a player whose role you would like to know (as discussed during night, you should probably target a person who is likely to live many days and is more than likely to be a villager). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=61)