# Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025 "2011-08-17T14:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1622 "2011-08-22T17:14:56Z")
And what I saw on Giraffe after others suspected Giraffe. [1341](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14162292&postcount=1341) ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1623 "2011-08-22T17:17:32Z")
Thanks for the links. I’ll take a look. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1624 "2011-08-22T17:18:36Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > **MODERATOR NOTE** > > Last warning, peeker. I’d rather not modkill you, but I won’t hesitate to do so if you don’t quit with the non-game-related meanderings. You’re being anti-game. solly. ok. help me. i can’t talk about the way people behave in the game. i certainly can’t talk about other folks and their proclivity to goats. i can’t talk about the mods. can i talk about the weather? or maybe the geopolitical implications of a global financial melt down? shoot, just give me a choice my friend. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1625 "2011-08-22T17:23:49Z")
extra deaths are to towns benefit. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1626 "2011-08-22T17:25:05Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > **pizza** theoretical question: if you and i were scum on the same team would you play it the way toDay has played out or would you go a differerent direction? just a purely hypothetical. i mean most of the folks “over here” i tend to know their strengths and weaknesses. and since they know mine we just kind of feed when we are scum. and we kind of adjust. shut the fuck up kind of scum board nonsense. purely hypothetical would you pull an **ed** and **meeko** shenanigan or what? because i fully expect a ton of shit when the folks that work come back to play. That’s a terrifying thought. If both of you are scum and just drowning out all the rest of the actual game play. I really don’t think it’s the case, but I wonder if one of the top most prolific posters really is the wolf spokesperson so to speak. I gotta go back and look at the bandwagons from yesterday again. That conversation seems to have been forgotten. With several viable bandwagons, it stands to reason that one of them was for scum and that krays’ lynch was influenced by them. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1627 "2011-08-22T17:25:17Z")
**peeker** , how about playing the effing game? > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > And in case you’re wondering, the sole reason I’m not voting for Brewha right now was already publicly stated; no one is following my case against him. > > The instant that changes, my vote changes back to him. This comment bothers me. Townies should make cases and not bother themselves about whether or not other people follow them. In other news, I am really starting to get concerned about the lack of votes on **peeker** toDay as compared to yesterDay. My analysis of **Scuba Ben** has the two of them linked as Scum, with the latter trying to save the former with his votes on the **Krayz** wagon. I am considering switching my vote to **peeker** and focusing on **Ben** tomorrow if **peeker** turns out to be Scum, but I’m not sure if I’m falling into the “vote for **peeker** because he’s being a dick all over the game thread” trap. Any thoughts on this from anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1628 "2011-08-22T17:30:28Z")
[quote=“Drain\_Bead, post:1627, topic:593025”] **peeker** , how about playing the effing game?/QUOTE] that’s what i am trying to do. i’ll ask you the same question that i asked **jan** that she chose not to answer. as town what is our job? probably paraphrased a touch. ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1629 "2011-08-22T17:32:41Z")
1. I’m not lynching a claimed vig at this stage in this setup with no counterclaim. The only possible scenarios are: a. Pizza is really a vig, and is town b. Pizza really thinks he’s a vig, but is something else, and is town c. Pizza isn’t a vig, and is a wolf who thinks that claiming vig will save him from the lynch (even though he wasn’t getting substantial heat and in all likelihood had nothing to fear) d. FPS option: Pizza is town, he knows his role, he knows it’s useless, and is claiming vig in an attempt to draw fire from scum at night. I think the likelihood of each possibility is b\>a\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>c\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>d Therefore, it’s very likely that Pizza is town imo. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1630 "2011-08-22T17:34:39Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > This comment bothers me. Townies should make cases and not bother themselves about whether or not other people follow them. Fraid I disagree. Townies should do their damndest to get actual suspects lynched. Plopping a do-nothing vote on Brewha by itself does the town absolutely no good, and doesn’t frighten any wolves either. [ul] [li]Putting your vote on people who could actually be lynched, and/or[/li][li]Campaigning for someone’s lynch but abandoning that for secondary or tertiary suspects that may get lynched[/li][/ul] Are both ways of pressuring the scums as effectively as I can. I will defend the way I play 7 ways from Sunday, and I have very solid ground to challenge you on this. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1631 "2011-08-22T17:35:03Z")
Oy. Ok, just starting to even try to catch up right now. And I think I lost my bet with Peek. I don’t think the interaction on this page with Gad would have happened if Peek was scum. I am going back now to really catch up. More thoughts in a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1632 "2011-08-22T17:36:09Z")
NETA: that 1) was going to be part of a list that I forgot to finish ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1633 "2011-08-22T17:37:54Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > In other news, I am really starting to get concerned about the lack of votes on **peeker** toDay as compared to yesterDay. My analysis of **Scuba Ben** has the two of them linked as Scum, with the latter trying to save the former with his votes on the **Krayz** wagon. I am considering switching my vote to **peeker** and focusing on **Ben** tomorrow if **peeker** turns out to be Scum, but I’m not sure if I’m falling into the “vote for **peeker** because he’s being a dick all over the game thread” trap. Any thoughts on this from anyone else? I’m not getting a scum feel from Peeker. His posting habits are pretty anti-town because the noise is drowning out any actual discussion. My best guess at this point is that Peeker is town or PFK. I’m not ruling out wolf, but he’s being awfully loud and confrontational. Wolves tend to avoid that kind of thing - at least to the degree that Peeker is engaged. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1634 "2011-08-22T17:38:43Z")
> [@Dancecat](#): > > 1. I’m not lynching a claimed vig at this stage in this setup with no counterclaim. The only possible scenarios are: > > a. Pizza is really a vig, and is town > b. Pizza really thinks he’s a vig, but is something else, and is town > c. Pizza isn’t a vig, and is a wolf who thinks that claiming vig will save him from the lynch (even though he wasn’t getting substantial heat and in all likelihood had nothing to fear) > d. FPS option: Pizza is town, he knows his role, he knows it’s useless, and is claiming vig in an attempt to draw fire from scum at night. > > I think the likelihood of each possibility is b\>a\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>c\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>d > > Therefore, it’s very likely that Pizza is town imo. D is more likely than B, heads up. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1635 "2011-08-22T17:39:29Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > And I think I lost my bet with Peek. I don’t think the interaction on this page with Gad would have happened if Peek was scum. It’s understandable why you’d infer this, but please accept my position that peeker’s off-topic posts have been anti-game regardless of his role, and I wouldn’t be tolerating them if he were scum (or neutral) any more than I would if he were town. > [@Dancecat](#): > > NETA: that 1) was going to be part of a list that I forgot to finish 😃 ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1636 "2011-08-22T17:40:15Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > It’s understandable why you’d infer this, but please accept my position that peeker’s off-topic posts have been anti-game regardless of his role, and I wouldn’t be tolerating them if he were scum (or neutral) any more than I would if he were town. I believe that you believe this. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1637 "2011-08-22T17:40:30Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **peeker** , how about playing the effing game? A grand idear there > [@](#): > > This comment bothers me. Townies should make cases and not bother themselves about whether or not other people follow them. This seems to be \*\* ATPG’s\*\* MO. (not that I excuse it) > [@](#): > > In other news, I am really starting to get concerned about the lack of votes on **peeker** toDay as compared to yesterDay. My analysis of **Scuba Ben** has the two of them linked as Scum, with the latter trying to save the former with his votes on the **Krayz** wagon. I am considering switching my vote to **peeker** and focusing on **Ben** tomorrow if **peeker** turns out to be Scum, but I’m not sure if I’m falling into the “vote for **peeker** because he’s being a dick all over the game thread” trap. Any thoughts on this from anyone else? I’m getting mixed messages all over the place. I am tempted to lean into that trap myself (but the bait smells funny), but I am waiting to see what some of our quieter players have to say if they return in time to do so. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1638 "2011-08-22T17:42:12Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Oy. Ok, just starting to even try to catch up right now. > > And I think I lost my bet with Peek. I don’t think the interaction on this page with Gad would have happened if Peek was scum. > > I am going back now to really catch up. More thoughts in a bit. Or, Gad let it go as long as it did because Peek is scum. I’m not one for metagaming mod actions - but peeker is the post leader by close to 3 times the count of the number two poster. I’m just saying that I wouldn’t clear Peeker based on that. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1639 "2011-08-22T17:43:51Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > Just to highlight, IDLE was all over me for my somewhat lazy vote and not posting much on day one, to the point of suggesting i just get Vigged , then rolls in and does a " me to" vote and doesnt post much. “Me too” votes are complex animals as far as sniffing out scumminess. Often when it’s a wagon and the evidence is weak like “his posting is scummy” or “he’s doing a lot of smudging” and someone "Me Too"s the vote, it could be scum putting and opportunistic vote, either to get a townie dead or gain town cred on lynching a deadman walking scum, or it could be a townie who has the same read or is lazy. It’s difficult to differentiate them as they happen, but the pattern becomes useful after a voting record is established. Were they consistently on bandwagons for weak reasons or “Me Too” votes? How did those wagons turn out? How does the timing of those votes play into how that wagon relates to other potential lynch targets? OTOH, sometimes a significant case is already made, like I feel I did with **Scuba\_Ben**. If it convinces a townie, they often won’t have much to add, so how else can they vote besides saying they’re convinced? Unfortunately, scum will react the same way. That said, what you’ll often see that differentiates them is that, once one is convinced, one can start panning out likely scenarios based upon the results of that lynch, and scum often will not do so. Particularly in this case, I expect that if **Scuba\_Ben** flips scum, then we almost certainly have to consider lynching one of the other top vote getters from Yesterday, and I also suspect that we’ll have some scum bussing him Today at the point that it becomes clear that he’s going down. So, if I have time Today, I’ll start taking a close look at **TexCat** and **Silver Jan** as my hunch is it’s one of those two given how **Ben** ’s voting pattern was around **peeker**. OTOH, if **Scuba\_Ben** flips town, I’m honestly not really sure what to make of that. I suppose it lessens suspicion on those two. I’d probably be inclined to look at people who were shying away from the **Ben** wagon without providing any real reason. > [@](#): > > Not sure what to make of the Giraffe vs Peeker vs Pizza stuff, way to much noise to signal to get much out of that. Frankly, I’m unsure what to make of this either. I think seeing how their votes ultimately land, how **Ben** flips, and whatever else we gain Tonight will shed a lot more light on it. > [@](#): > > I am somewhat concerned about Pizza. If he is telling the truth and targeted Malahoth last night then there is a reasonable chance that he has a killing role. As our vig is dead that leaves another non wolf killer. We know there is the possibility of independent factions due to the rules, so there is a chance that Pizza is not town aligned. If he were independent, he would have nothing to loose by being very pro town, in the hopes of garnering some town protection. On the otehr hand it would be odd that PFK came out and admitted they had a killing role. A PFK with a confirmable power, particularly in a closed game, actually has some reasonable motivation to come forth. He knows that neither the town nor scum can differentiate a Vig from an SK and so, by coming forth, he can confirm his power and openly use it in a pro-town way which gains the trust of the town. This not only gains him possible protection, but likely avoids investigations. It also means that as long as the scum are on a cop/doc hunt, he’ll probably remain alive unless they don’t have any better targets, particularly if he expresses suspicion in townies because he’ll do some of their work for them. > [@](#): > > Several people have tried to suggest the scum are mostly otherborders due to the number of town otherborders who were killed last night. As far as I know that whole argument is purest WIFOM. Scum could almost entirly SMDB/IDELEBOARD/Giraffe/Domebo players, they just need one or two otherborders to tell them Guri and silman were good players. Hell scum could be entirly non otherboarders and just read comments that indicated the town deaths were good players, or wanted a giant smudge on the otherboarders. > What is interesting ( well to me, but i am easily amused) is that who ever first posited the notion seamed to assume that both town deaths were scum kills. Could be a case of perfect information syndrome, need to go back and review the posts. I already expressed my thoughts on this earlier, but I think any reasoning from this is not going to be fruitful. It’s highly probable that there’s at least one scum from both circles. As such, any reasoning that only Dopers or only Other-Boarders would know could easily be expressed by just that one person, particularly early in the game when their numbers are high. Now, if we could determine clear style from one circle with little or no influence from the other, we might be able to say that they’re 100% one or the other, and that would be very useful information particularly since it’s so incredibly unlikely, but any mix in between is virtually indistinguishable. Instead, all we’re really seeing, I think, is confirmation bias. As in, being part of this circle I might have done something for that reason, they did that, therefore they’re from my circle; however, not being from the other circle, one is ignorant of why they might have done it as well. For instance, I think it was episkey who suggested they were Other-Boarders because **Guiri** was killed and someone in a game there did stuff similar, but Dopers very well may have wanted him dead because they already knew he was a good player. So, if he was a scum kill, there’s no meaningful way of differentiating. Hell, he might have been killed for some other reason too, particularly if he was one of the only ones expressing suspicion for towards someone. Either way, since we can’t even determine who killed who, and reasoning based on scum Night kills often includes a lot of dangerous assumptions, and even with reasonable ones we can’t make a meaningful differentiation, I agree that it’s pure WIFOM, at least at this point. If at some point we learn who targetted who or the alignments of some of the proponents, we might have something, but certainly not now. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1640 "2011-08-22T17:48:04Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > Or, Gad let it go as long as it did because Peek is scum. I’m not one for metagaming mod actions - but peeker is the post leader by close to 3 times the count of the number two poster. > > I’m just saying that I wouldn’t clear Peeker based on that. Oy, you guys are making it hard to actually catch up. I need to turn off my email notifications for this game. I am not 100% clearing him based on that. I am soft clearing him and reversing my previous decision that he had displayed his tell based on current posting behavior and mod reaction to said behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1641 "2011-08-22T17:49:32Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > D is more likely than B, heads up. really? wow, i thought you guys frowned upon that sort of thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=83)