# Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025 "2011-08-17T14:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 83
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1642 "2011-08-22T17:50:31Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > What? This is preposterous! I’d never do such a thing except for that one time. Two times… three… gosh I’ve been neutral a lot. > > Actually I am town, and I would admit to being neutral if I were. This is not the way to play an independent role in this game, because “protection” cannot be consistently applied every night, unlike most other games. Even if the doc guesses correctly on me tonight, I die tomorrow night. And if they wait until tomorrow night, I could die tonight. > > This claim I have will result in me being blocked, tracked, watched, protected, or murdered. It makes no sense for me to do this as third-party. Attracting this much attention to myself as a killing role makes no sense as scum, especially since I did it while under zero pressure. So that leaves townie. > > Still not certain I’m the vig, but it is a fair assumption to make. Wow, I don’t even know where to begin with this one, but your logic is awful here. It essentially boils down to “scum wouldn’t do that”, and yet almost every time the town has settled on something like that, the scum have done it and the town gets screwed. That said, despite the fact that this logic is awful, it’s awful because you didn’t consider well why you might have done what you’ve done as PFK or as scum. IME, that actually tends to be the sign of town otherwise you’re talking about FPS (Is that the abbreviation they were using?) for scum. So, I’m inclined to believe you for now, but I’m quite interested to see how things play out with your target Tonight and a potential cluster of abilities targetted on you. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1643 "2011-08-22T17:55:02Z")
> [@Dancecat](#): > > 1. I’m not lynching a claimed vig at this stage in this setup with no counterclaim. The only possible scenarios are: > > a. Pizza is really a vig, and is town > b. Pizza really thinks he’s a vig, but is something else, and is town > c. Pizza isn’t a vig, and is a wolf who thinks that claiming vig will save him from the lynch (even though he wasn’t getting substantial heat and in all likelihood had nothing to fear) > d. FPS option: Pizza is town, he knows his role, he knows it’s useless, and is claiming vig in an attempt to draw fire from scum at night. > > I think the likelihood of each possibility is b\>a\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>c\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>d > > Therefore, it’s very likely that Pizza is town imo. What about e: Pizza is scum who either really thinks he’s a Vig (or really is one)? Please note: This is NOT a smudge against Pizza (who I haven’t gotten any reads on yet, at all, despite Peeker going nuts on him). What it is is showing you options you forgot which, again, I can’t understand that the POGers don’t see in order to “clear” someone. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1644 "2011-08-22T17:57:25Z")
> [@Dancecat](#): > > really? wow, i thought you guys frowned upon that sort of thing. Who, me? Maybe others, but not me. I have screwed over so many scumbags over the years because of bluff claims. But maybe I’m a vig \*this \*time… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1645 "2011-08-22T17:58:18Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > \ > Originally Posted by Precambrianmollusc > What is interesting ( well to me, but i am easily amused) is that who ever first posited the notion seamed to assume that both town deaths were scum kills. Could be a case of perfect information syndrome, need to go back and review the posts. > i am about sure that it was **texcat**. matter of fact i was going to bring it up because those back to backs that were made just seemed off. but i couldn’t really get any traction in my brain so just kind of stuck it aside. but since you mention i thought i’d chip in. [1114](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14159344&postcount=1114)I started out speculating on which of Guiri and Silman was the scum kill, but quickly realized that they both \*could be \*scum kills. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1646 "2011-08-22T18:01:01Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Wow, I don’t even know where to begin with this one, but your logic is awful here. It essentially boils down to “scum wouldn’t do that”, and yet almost every time the town has settled on something like that, the scum have done it and the town gets screwed. All such claims are situational, and you know that. You can’t seriously compare “scum wouldn’t do that” situations between themselves. Almost everything that happens in the entire game is a question of whether or not the scums would “do that”. You’re harshly oversimplifying a **fundamental concept of mafia**. Your logic is what’s awful here. > [@](#): > > That said, despite the fact that this logic is awful, it’s awful because you didn’t consider well why you might have done what you’ve done as PFK or as scum. That you know of. I yak a lot but maybe I don’t say everything that’s on my mind. > [@](#): > > So, I’m inclined to believe you for now, but I’m quite interested to see how things play out with your target Tonight and a potential cluster of abilities targetted on you. Wait, so first you said that “scum wouldn’t do that” is awful logic, then you turned around and said I wouldn’t do what I did as such-and-such an alignment? Or that it was less likely? You’re arguing with yourself now. Be careful about claiming I have awful logic, because them’s fightin words. ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1647 "2011-08-22T18:03:43Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > hey **buff** heard from **mykbot** lately? You keep asking that like it means something. Even in the unlikely/improbable (the phrasing of the rules makes me think it’s impossible) event that **mykbot** was silenced, you can’t even be remotely sure that _you’re_ the one who did it. > [@brewha](#): > > I’m not getting a scum feel from Peeker. His posting habits are pretty anti-town because the noise is drowning out any actual discussion. My best guess at this point is that Peeker is town or PFK. > > I’m not ruling out wolf, but he’s being awfully loud and confrontational. Wolves tend to avoid that kind of thing - at least to the degree that Peeker is engaged. Yeah, that would be a pretty good Wolf ploy, huh? I’m going to **vote peeker** at the moment. I’d like to think that a town **peek** wouldn’t play in such an anti-Town fashion. I know he’s over-the-top on a regular basis, but this is over-the-top-of-the-top. All this noise feels like a scum (or possibly neutral) ploy, one that only **peeker** could pull off. I still find **silver jan** as suspicious as I did yesterDay, and the **scuba ben** case is quite believable, but as of right now, **peeker** has _earned_ my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1648 "2011-08-22T18:03:49Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > What about e: Pizza is scum who either really thinks he’s a Vig (or really is one)? This one is already ruled out by the game moderator who said that townies would know they’re townie and mafia would know they’re mafia, just not what ability they have. So discard it. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1649 "2011-08-22T18:07:56Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > This one is already ruled out by the game moderator who said that townies would know they’re townie and mafia would know they’re mafia, just not what ability they have. So discard it. Um, what’s that have to do with anything? My point was you could be a scum vig and lying that you’re Town. Again, I’m not saying you ARE, I just get itchy when people don’t list all of the possibilities. Dancecat failed to include this one. I think it’s a mistake (for anyone) to just assume limited possibilties (for anyone else). ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1650 "2011-08-22T18:11:44Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > It’s understandable why you’d infer this, but please accept my position that peeker’s off-topic posts have been anti-game regardless of his role, and I wouldn’t be tolerating them if he were scum (or neutral) any more than I would if he were town. man i don’t get this at all. guess it has to do with the whole Night kind of thingamabob. holy crud **gad** when we enter the arena we do it with full knowledge. how can any interaction be “anti game”. guess since what i do is not what you would do i am kind of an outcast. heebuz. ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1651 "2011-08-22T18:11:50Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > What about e: Pizza is scum who either really thinks he’s a Vig (or really is one)? > Please note: This is NOT a smudge against Pizza (who I haven’t gotten any reads on yet, at all, despite Peeker going nuts on him). What it is is showing you options you forgot which, again, I can’t understand that the POGers don’t see in order to “clear” someone. This possibility can pretty much be eliminated bc the wolf vig would NEVER want to draw that kind of attention to themselves. Making a claim like this means that the player is going to be under a LOT of scrutiny if they’re not dead in a couple days, so doing this as a wolf vig would pretty much be suicide. It’s such a bad move that I feel pretty comfortable eliminating it from the realm of possibilities, given that Pizza seems to be a competent player. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Who, me? > > Maybe others, but not me. I have screwed over so many scumbags over the years because of bluff claims. But maybe I’m a vig \*this \*time… 😃 I like your style (probably). ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1652 "2011-08-22T18:12:21Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Um, what’s that have to do with anything? > My point was you could be a scum vig and lying that you’re Town. You said I was **under the impression** I was a town vig as scum. - Pizza is scum who either really thinks he’s a Vig (or really is one)\* Unless you mean I think I’m the scumbag with a bog-standard murder as my only power? Then I wouldn’t think I’m a vigilante, I’d think I was a grunt, which is a rather crappy role for a mafioso in a game where literally no one is supposed to be vanilla. ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1653 "2011-08-22T18:13:15Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Um, what’s that have to do with anything? > My point was you could be a scum vig and lying that you’re Town. > > Again, I’m not saying you ARE, I just get itchy when people don’t list all of the possibilities. > > Dancecat failed to include this one. I think it’s a mistake (for anyone) to just assume limited possibilties (for anyone else). I mean, in a game of this type, impossible is nothing. But it’s so unlikely that I think we can safely disregard it for all practical purposes. Even if you want to include it in the list, it’s still much more likely than not that Pizza is town. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1654 "2011-08-22T18:22:45Z")
OF COURSE I’M TOWNIE! Well, let’s not get overconfident here. I’d better \*finally \*check my role PM to make sure…😛 ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1655 "2011-08-22T18:24:03Z")
> [@Dancecat](#): > > This possibility can pretty much be eliminated bc the wolf vig would NEVER want to draw that kind of attention to themselves. Making a claim like this means that the player is going to be under a LOT of scrutiny if they’re not dead in a couple days, so doing this as a wolf vig would pretty much be suicide. It’s such a bad move that I feel pretty comfortable eliminating it from the realm of possibilities, given that Pizza seems to be a competent player. Okay, at least I get your reasoning now. You’re chalking it up to a “Scum would never do that” theory, then. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > You said I was **under the impression** I was a town vig as scum. No, I said you might have been under the impression you were a Vig, I didn’t say Town at all (and I don’t know why I would if my point was that scum could have a Vig role too, among them). Moot point now since I understand better why Dancecat left that one out. I still don’t ever like the “scum would never do that” reason, though, but it might just be another cultural difference. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1656 "2011-08-22T18:24:42Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > OF COURSE I’M TOWNIE! > > Well, let’s not get overconfident here. I’d better \*finally \*check my role PM to make sure…😛 SCUM TELL SCUM TELL! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1657 "2011-08-22T18:29:44Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > I have to reply to **Blaster Master** ’s case in 1424, and cross-check it with eir vote in 1109. I’ll do that at some point after I’ve caught up. AOP: My notes say it was for my flip-flop voting Yesterday, and **Drain Bead** voted me in 1190 for essentially the same reason. That’s how my case against you was summed up originally by others, but even when I expressed my suspicion Yesterday, it was with regard to unvoting **Krayz** , clearing him, then putting your vote back. I don’t remember exactly where I made a detailed case, but I’m sure you’ll find it as you catch up. The thing is, I was able to come up with what I felt was reasonable scum motivation for your behavior, particularly in light of having forgotten that you cleared someone, which is also not unlikely for scum to do since they already know what alignment everyone is. > [@](#): > > To BlaM, Drain Bead, peeker, and me-too Weedy: Any comment on my volunteering that I get a second target Tonight? More to the point: If I were a Wolf, why would I volunteer such info? Frankly, this means nothing to me. Anyone could claim anything about last Night. In fact, I strongly suspect that scum would want to reveal things because townies want to. Imagine that at some point someone with an identifiable role comes up for a lynch, makes a claim and lists all of their targets. If everyone else they targeted says they got someone and one person doesn’t, I’ll be suspicious of them. Or it’s also possible that you got some other information and lied about it, like you know you were role-blocked or some-such. You can always try to argue at some point that redirections or whatever were involved, but if you can convince someone that their power is best used on someone they trust to be townie when it’s actually best used on someone their suspicious of, you can possibly block a cop or doc. So, in short, I see no way to differentiate between pro-town and anti-town motivation, so it’s a straight up null for me. > [@](#): > > My normal play on Day 1 has always been weak votes, weak reasoning, and scummy-seeming weak play. :fail: The vast majority of votes on Day 1 are going to be weak. There’s little information to go on. It’s about the nature of the votes, particularly timing and the alignments of the other potential lynchees that play into it. > [@](#): > > But in the cases against me, **Weedy** ’s #1452 is explicitly a “me too” vote. That’s pretty suspicious to me, and also to **PizzaGuy** in 1465. So I encourage people to take another look at Weedy. I’ve already addressed the value of Me Toos, in fact, but going “look someone else did it” doesn’t mean anything. Inevitably, both town and scum will Me Too Vote. That said, I’m personally suspicious of **Weedy** already, if my plain chastising wasn’t enough, for having his vote you and then expressing concern about how the wagon is building. If you flip scum, it doesn’t mean much, but if you flip town, it could stink of PIS and trying to shrug off responsibility for voting on the wagon. But I can’t make the differentiation until Tomorrow. > [@](#): > > Also, I saw over the weekend (mainly on Saturday) a lot of discussion about **Idle Thoughts** reporting in 1097 that he received a message that **Dancecat** is a Villager. I strongly trust his report, because I received a similar message overNight: **Silver Jan** is a Villager. And she was not my target last Night. > > I acknowledge this presents the same issue as **Inner Stickler** laid out about Idle’s claimed message in 1169. I add to that discussion that because two of us are reporting similar received messages, this increases the likelihood that our reports are accurate. So should Idle or I flip Town, consider both Dancecat and Jan as cleared. > > I recognize that none of this says anything about Idle’s or my alignment / affiliation. > > I am curious **Silver Jan** : Did you target me last night? If you did not, I am not asking you to say who you did target. > > Aside @ **sangaman** : In #1445 you kvetch that English has no gender neutral pronouns. That is why I start Mafia games using Spivak pronouns, a nonstandard add-in to English. Not sure what to make of it, but it is interesting that you claim your message is that one of the late wagons Yesterday that I think your vote may have been protecting is a villager. I’ll have to give it some thought on what it might mean if you flip scum, but it’s probably just WIFOM. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1658 "2011-08-22T18:31:09Z")
**MODERATOR ANNOUNCEMENT** DonkTimesFour is subbing in and will be replacing sachertorte. Everyone say hi. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1659 "2011-08-22T18:34:45Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > \*\*\*\*DonkTimesFour is subbing in and will be replacing sachertorte. Everyone say hi. HI! HI! HI! HI! There, I’ve said hi to Donk. ---
**Author:** ![DonkTimesFour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ea924/32.png) [@DonkTimesFour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonkTimesFour)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1660 "2011-08-22T18:35:07Z")
Never fear, never worry, donktimesfour is here. I am from the other board, simply known as DonkDonkDonkDonk over there. You may ask why the \*\*\*\* does someone have such a stupid screen name, and the answer is, I dunno. Looking forward to playing this game, but first I’ll have to read everything which shouldn’t be too tasking from the looks of things. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1661 "2011-08-22T18:35:18Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > That’s how my case against you was summed up originally by others, but even when I expressed my suspicion Yesterday, it was with regard to unvoting **Krayz** , clearing him, then putting your vote back. I don’t remember exactly where I made a detailed case, but I’m sure you’ll find it as you catch up. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14163421#post14163421](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14163421#post14163421) Shazam! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=82) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=84)