# Mystery Mafia -- Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025 "2011-08-17T14:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 90
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1782 "2011-08-22T21:03:54Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > NETA: That’s a serious question – I have never been a mason, but can’t imagine why that would be good strategy. Yeah masons never vote each other. Or at least, they never should, and any two somewhat competent players with a few games under their belts would know this. Also Tex, if you and gnarlycharlie are masons, where is your code? Or do you not do that? Or do you not want to point to it until one of you is dead? Answer quickly please. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1783 "2011-08-22T21:04:12Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Seriously **Blaster Master**? Seriously? :dubious: > > You’re willing to kill off a potential Seer because you don’t believe her? > > That has to be one of the most eyebrow-inducing plays I’ve ever seen. What logic are you having where you lynch the PERSON CLAIMING THEY’VE FOUND A WOLF over the ACCUSED WOLF themselves? > > I don’t know what you’re on, but seriously, you want to obviously lynch **gnarly** here if EITHER of the two! If he’s Town, THEN lynch Jan…but if he’s wolf–well, yeah, that doesn’t automatically excuse her from being a wolf too–but it sure acts as a pretty big point in her favor. > > I don’t really understand your reasoning to lynch the person reporting they found scum first. > > I’m not one to like to use the “FOS” line, but, hell, FOS **Blaster Master** if I’ll ever FOS anyone. Look, she has a Magic Bag and, how she’s talking about it, it doesn’t sound like a peek. The point is, if she IS a seer, the scum already know if **GnarlyCharlie** is a wolf or not. She needs to give us an unambiguous reason why he’s a wolf so we can appropriately determine the strength of the dichotomy here. Hell, for all I know, she saw him target one of the Townies that died last Night and assumed that he must have been a Wolf because he targetted them, but he was targetting him for other reasons. But at this point, I have no way of knowing if it’s real or not, or if it’s really even a peek, so there’s no way of assessing the risk. Instead, I believe all we do know is that one is Wolf and one is not, so I should vote for the one of the two I am most inclined to believe is a Wolf. Her as a possible alternative to the **Krayz** wagon Yesterday whereas I have no read on **GnarlyCharlie** , I’m inclined to think it’s her. If she’s going to claim Seer, fine, I’m willing to lynch **GnarlyCharlie** , because we’ll have a true dichotomy and, on preview, as I see septimus also claimed to have been protected last Night in addition to **NAF** , we likely have two doctors who can keep her alive for an indefinite amount of time. Regardless, as long as it’s a Magic Bag and not an actual claim, all it’s going to do is create confusion wherein the only ones who know what’s actually going on here is the scum. ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1784 "2011-08-22T21:06:11Z")
Texcat is rocketing up my wolf list for every minute he doesn’t respond to anyone’s questions about the claim. ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1785 "2011-08-22T21:06:13Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I’ll respond to this as well: The section in the OP about conditional targets should clarify things to some extent. **Absent some other mechanic, there is no mechanism by which a player could submit two conditional targets and have their result shunted to the second of the two conditional targets if the first is still alive at the end of the day.** > > I want to be clear about this so people don’t think that there are ways their conditional targets will go awry because of when they submitted them. Now I’m concerned. If **Jan** ’s first target was still alive at the end of the Day (as she states), doesn’t **Gad** ’s response mean that the first target is the one she acted on? Does anyone think that \*\*Jan \*\*should tell us who her original target was? If \*\*gnarlycharlie \*\*turns up town and \*\*Jan \*\*turns up town, it’s possible her original target is the wolf here, right? **Jan** , I’m not sure if you can answer this, but if you can, did you get a PM that explicitly stated \*\*gnarlycharlie \*\*was a wolf? Or was it something like “your target is a wolf.” ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1786 "2011-08-22T21:07:21Z")
> [@Dancecat](#): > > This logic is so terrible I can’t even find the words to describe it. If you don’t want to lynch gnarlycharlie, that’s totally cool (I don’t especially want to lynch him either), but suggesting that we resolve Silver Jan instead of forcing the wolves to do it is probably the worst play we can make. I’m not going to automatically give credence to a Magic Bag. The wolves know if she’s honest or not already, because they know the alignments, keeping the Magic Bag doesn’t help us. That said, I’m not averse to lynching **GnarlyCharlie** , I just don’t want us to automatically just believe a Magic Bag claim, I at least want some discussion about it. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1787 "2011-08-22T21:10:05Z")
> [@rules](#): > > In addition, do not expect any roles that do not pertain directly to night actions – there will be no godfathers, no millers, no double voters. That much I can tell you. Would mason be cosidered a Night action? ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1788 "2011-08-22T21:10:12Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I’m not going to automatically give credence to a Magic Bag. The wolves know if she’s honest or not already, because they know the alignments, keeping the Magic Bag doesn’t help us. > > That said, I’m not averse to lynching **GnarlyCharlie** , I just don’t want us to automatically just believe a Magic Bag claim, I at least want some discussion about it. I don’t want to lynch gnarlycharlie. I really don’t want to lynch Silver Jan. I now think that the best play is to lynch Texcat for false claiming, wagon resolution, fun, and profit. If Tex can prove that he and charlie are masons, we can look elsewhere, but he’s making himself a really obvious lynch target right now. **vote TexCat** ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1789 "2011-08-22T21:11:28Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Look, she has a Magic Bag and, how she’s talking about it, it doesn’t sound like a peek. The point is, if she IS a seer, the scum already know if **GnarlyCharlie** is a wolf or not. She needs to give us an unambiguous reason why he’s a wolf so we can appropriately determine the strength of the dichotomy here. Hell, for all I know, she saw him target one of the Townies that died last Night and assumed that he must have been a Wolf because he targetted them, but he was targetting him for other reasons. > > But at this point, I have no way of knowing if it’s real or not, or if it’s really even a peek, so there’s no way of assessing the risk. Instead, I believe all we do know is that one is Wolf and one is not, so I should vote for the one of the two I am most inclined to believe is a Wolf. Her as a possible alternative to the **Krayz** wagon Yesterday whereas I have no read on **GnarlyCharlie** , I’m inclined to think it’s her. > > If she’s going to claim Seer, fine, I’m willing to lynch **GnarlyCharlie** , because we’ll have a true dichotomy and, on preview, as I see septimus also claimed to have been protected last Night in addition to **NAF** , we likely have two doctors who can keep her alive for an indefinite amount of time. > > Regardless, as long as it’s a Magic Bag and not an actual claim, all it’s going to do is create confusion wherein the only ones who know what’s actually going on here is the scum. I really don’t get this logic at all. I can see us wanting to know more about **Jan** ’s claim but if it comes down to her thinking she is a cop and she has a read on a scum, the suspected scum should go first. I don’t think we will know her actual role by the end of this Day, though. And it seems very anti-town to lynch her just because she doesn’t know her role, i.e., if there is a chance she is a cop, we need to keep her in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Dancecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Dancecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancecat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1790 "2011-08-22T21:11:30Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Would mason be cosidered a Night action? In the last game you could peek to mason. You would never start the game with a mason, but there would be a person (or people) who you could become masons with if you targeted them at night. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1791 "2011-08-22T21:11:52Z")
I definitely got the information that **gnarly** is a wolf and as I am not allowed to post the actual PM this is what I thought. At first I was curious as to why my 2nd target got a result but as I pondered further I came to think that someone else must have targeted **gnarly** and I got their night action instead of whomever sent the action out. I have just re read my PM and \*\*Gnarly \*\*IS a wolf, whether I am a seer or not I have no idea but I didn’t kill anyone either as far as I know. How do I manage to get myself into messes like this? Yes, it’s a rhetorical question. ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1792 "2011-08-22T21:12:00Z")
> [@lilflower](#): > > Now I’m concerned. If **Jan** ’s first target was still alive at the end of the Day (as she states), doesn’t **Gad** ’s response mean that the first target is the one she acted on? Psst… > [@bufftabby](#): > > Now that things are a bit clearer, I wonder whether **Jan** ’s targetting of **gnarlycharlie** is what actually delivered the results to her. If her first D1-submitted target was not in fact lynched, it makes no sense to move to the second target for her result. But we’ve already seen players who claim to have received information about people they didn’t target. If **Jan** ’s telling the truth, I think it’s most likely that her info on **gnarly** came from elsewhere, and she would’ve received it regardless of whether he was her second target. As she initially presented the scenario, it seemed logically impossible that she was being truthful, but knowing that she submitted her targets D1 instead of N1 at least makes the scenario _possible_. ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1793 "2011-08-22T21:12:56Z")
> [@Dancecat](#): > > I don’t want to lynch gnarlycharlie. I really don’t want to lynch Silver Jan. I now think that the best play is to lynch Texcat for false claiming, wagon resolution, fun, and profit. If Tex can prove that he and charlie are masons, we can look elsewhere, but he’s making himself a really obvious lynch target right now. > > **vote TexCat** I know this game is moving pretty fast but did I miss a claim by **Texcat**? What did she claim? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1794 "2011-08-22T21:14:23Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > If she’s going to claim Seer, fine, I’m willing to lynch **GnarlyCharlie** , because we’ll have a true dichotomy and, on preview, as I see septimus also claimed to have been protected last Night in addition to **NAF** , we likely have two doctors who can keep her alive for an indefinite amount of time. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. I read your whole posts here (despite snipping it down to just this) and I’m still suspicious that you’d choose the accuser over the accused. We have actual information that can be confirmed or shown as false simply by lynching the one that we have the apparent info on. ---
**Author:** ![lilflower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@lilflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilflower)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1795 "2011-08-22T21:15:14Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > Psst… So you think it’s possible that we have two roles who can give information to others? And maybe only one of those recipients claimed to have gotten information yesterDay? Interesting. I wonder if we do have cops but their results are sent elsewhere. What I don’t understand is that if \*\*Jan \*\*(and \*\*Idle \*\*and **Scuba** ) got their information because of some other players’ actions, where are the results of their own actions? Not that I want them to claim anything but it is curious. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1796 "2011-08-22T21:17:45Z")
> [@lilflower](#): > > Now I’m concerned. If **Jan** ’s first target was still alive at the end of the Day (as she states), doesn’t **Gad** ’s response mean that the first target is the one she acted on? > > Does anyone think that \*\*Jan \*\*should tell us who her original target was? If \*\*gnarlycharlie \*\*turns up town and \*\*Jan \*\*turns up town, it’s possible her original target is the wolf here, right? > > **Jan** , I’m not sure if you can answer this, but if you can, did you get a PM that explicitly stated \*\*gnarlycharlie \*\*was a wolf? Or was it something like “your target is a wolf.” That’s a good point (and one I’m curious to see the answer to myself), however I can’t see info being given like that. (As in, I can’t see the results being “Yes, they’re a wolf”..so that Jan doesn’t know who it’s talking about). My PM was pretty clear on who it was talking about, it said “Dancecat” by name, so I’m assuming it was pretty clear to her that she was being told gnarly was a wolf. Can you confirm, Jan? ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1797 "2011-08-22T21:18:14Z")
> [@lilflower](#): > > So you think it’s possible that we have two roles who can give information to others? And maybe only one of those recipients claimed to have gotten information yesterDay? Interesting. I wonder if we do have cops but their results are sent elsewhere. > > What I don’t understand is that if \*\*Jan \*\*(and \*\*Idle \*\*and **Scuba** ) got their information because of some other players’ actions, where are the results of their own actions? Not that I want them to claim anything but it is curious. [Texcat’s claim](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14169614&postcount=1774) It’s also possible that one of our dead folks was the recipient of the info. I can also see plenty of reasons why a living person wouldn’t share that they’d received any info. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1798 "2011-08-22T21:18:42Z")
Since I was already working on this I’ll post it now . It’s a rough draft on \*\* gnarlycharlie’s \*\* participation. Not all of his posts and not in order. [spoiler] > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > meh, i like to post fluff whatever alignment i am and i usually start slow. as for my vote, most Day 1 votes are for weak reasons. why single out mine? because of my extra sentence? good enough reason for D1 but for toDay, i disagree. find anyone suspicious in the **Krayz** wagon? just wondering. > > ```auto > > **pizza** , i see your playstyle is not agreeable with people from yet another board. :D your perspective, agreeable or not, is quite refreshing. > > ``` > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > posting as i catch up. > > it would be best to target another active player to confirm it. i must say that the mafia gods have a sense of humor if they gave **peek** a silencer role. > > another reason he shouldn’t target himself is if he indeed is a silencer, he might pop a vein not being able to post. 😃 > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > okay, another thing i got to get used to. when i saw that **mahaloth** was a **tracker** i assumed he was town since i’m used to **blue** for town **red** for scum and **green** for in-thread messages to the mod. > > that said, nice shot, poisoner. That end bit sounds very Scummy > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > yes, fakepeeking is certainly alien to us but the way they do it makes it feasible. if a cop did that and no one provided cover that would be the end of that. > > also, i notice that they also have pressure votes like players from CFC. it’s quite intriguing voting for someone for no real reason except to see how players especially the votee reacts. Setting things up so he can “pressure vote” > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > crap! this is moving fast but apparently not for our new friends. :eek: > this is hard due to my time zone but i’ll post as i catch up. first off, welcome to all our new players! > > we often believe being helpful is a null tell. > > one of our cultural differences. it would be interesting to use it in our next games though it would probably get them lynched before people get used to this. > > hey! good to see you here. > > yeah, if town can’t win because they lost their power roles, they played poorly or scum really played well. > > **NO!!!** ha ha ha. hey, **Pizza**! [/spoiler] No real substance here. I planned to polish this and ask charlie to step up his game. not the confidence I expect from a Town \*\* gnarly \*\* I’ll be more substantial when I get home from work. It is a rough draft but since this came up I decided to get this out there for consideration anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1799 "2011-08-22T21:18:53Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I wanted to wait for gnarlycharlie to wake up, and I have to be away for a couple of hours, but I think I need to explain now. > > gnarlycharlie and I are masons. He targeted me last night. We are both villagers, per our role reveal from the mod to both of us. I know that someone targeted gnarly last night and it was not an investigative role. I’m sure gnarly will be along in a few hours to confirm this, and I will be back soon. OH. MY. GOD. Now I’m completely lost. Let me see if I can get all the relevant claims right. **Scuba\_Ben** got a message that **Silver Jan** is Town **Silver Jan** has a magic bag that says **GnarlyCharlie** is a wolf. **TexCat** claims that her and **GnarlyCharlie** are masons. So if Jan is lying, she’s a wolf, and we have two confirmed Townies. If she’s telling the truth, we have a potential Seer confirmed and two confirmed Wolves. Here’s how I see it playing out: 1a) We can lynch **GnarlyCharlie** and he’s town, we get one mislynch, one confirmed town, one confirmed scum. We lynch **Jan** Tomorrow. 1b) We lynch him and he’s Wolf, we get another confirmed Wolf and more or less confirm **Jan**. 2a) We lynch **Jan** and she’s town. We have one mislynch, but we gain two confirmed scum. 2b) We lynch her and she’s scum, we have two confirmed town. Any disagreements with my possibly lynch scenarios? Frankly, it seems to me the the possible results favor lynching **Jan** , even if she is our Seer and we’re wrong, we traded her for two scum. And, Lord knows that I’m gonna post this and someone else claimed something… ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1800 "2011-08-22T21:20:03Z")
Damn, this thread is moving fast… > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I definitely got the information that **gnarly** is a wolf and as I am not allowed to post the actual PM this is what I thought. At first I was curious as to why my 2nd target got a result but as I pondered further I came to think that someone else must have targeted **gnarly** and I got their night action instead of whomever sent the action out. I have just re read my PM and \*\*Gnarly \*\*IS a wolf, whether I am a seer or not I have no idea but I didn’t kill anyone either as far as I know. > > How do I manage to get myself into messes like this? Yes, it’s a rhetorical question. That’s good enough for me. I’m happy voting gnarly. If gnarly is anything but wolf, the next vote should be obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025/1801 "2011-08-22T21:20:05Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > That’s a good point (and one I’m curious to see the answer to myself), however I can’t see info being given like that. (As in, I can’t see the results being “Yes, they’re a wolf”..so that Jan doesn’t know who it’s talking about). > > My PM was pretty clear on who it was talking about, it said “Dancecat” by name, so I’m assuming it was pretty clear to her that she was being told gnarly was a wolf. > > Can you confirm, Jan? Yes I was told that\*\* Gnarly\*\* is a wolf BUT it wasn’t worded in the same way as was my target which makes me think that I am not a seer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=89) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mystery-mafia-game-thread/593025.md?page=91)