# Mythbusters wants to bust Creationism **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 19, 2007, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826 "2007-02-19T16:44:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/1 "2007-02-19T16:44:06Z")
At least Adam Savage does. From an eSkeptic podcast which can be accessed [here](http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/07-02-16.html): > [@](#): > > My goal this year is to prove natural selection on the show. It’s gonna take a while, it’s gonna be very hard to make it fascinating on film in the context of our narrative structure, but I figure screw it. The sky’s the limit. Let’s do natural selection. I’m sick of fifty percent of this country thinking creationism is reasonable. It’s appalling. And I have the unique ability, maybe, to sell this idea to Discovery [Channel], and they’ll, they might allow me to do it, and I’m gonna try as hard as I can. I guess technically it sounds like he wants to confirm natural selection rather than “bust” Creationism but it sounds like an ambitious and worthwhile project for the show. I hope Discovery lets them do it. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/2 "2007-02-19T16:48:37Z")
It will certainly generate a lot more publicity for the show, but it could also have some negative aspects. I hope they’re prepared to deal with that. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/3 "2007-02-19T17:07:57Z")
That would be freaking awesome, but they’ll have to design the experiment very carefully so they leave no (or at least as little as possible) room for debate. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/4 "2007-02-19T17:10:43Z")
Demonstrating natural selection may take more than 42 minutes and demand more in the way of scientific knowledge than their crew has to offer. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/5 "2007-02-19T17:17:47Z")
I don’t think the goal is possible. There are lots of simple experiments which demonstrate natural selection, sure, but nothing that will convince a creationist. They’ll just label it microevolution and fail to be impressed unless there’s live video of a dog giving birth to a parrot. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/6 "2007-02-19T17:22:04Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] I don’t think the goal is possible. There are lots of simple experiments which demonstrate natural selection, sure, but nothing that will convince a creationist. They’ll just label it microevolution and fail to be impressed unless there’s live video of a dog giving birth to a parrot. [/QUOTE] Most people, though, are simply agnostic to the issue, with a default answer of “against” since that’s what they’ve been told to say by their family. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/7 "2007-02-19T17:24:55Z")
This show might regain a little bit of credibility in my eyes if they manage to pull this off. Lately they’ve been light on the science and heavy on the cute chick. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/8 "2007-02-19T17:28:02Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] live video of a dog giving birth to a parrot. [/QUOTE] Now _that’s_ reality TV I can _support!_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/9 "2007-02-19T17:28:47Z")
Even if they don’t convince any Creationists, it could educate the public a little bit. I’m not sure what they would do, but I could see this as a real public service. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/10 "2007-02-19T17:33:10Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] This show might regain a little bit of credibility in my eyes if they manage to pull this off. Lately they’ve been light on the science and heavy on the cute chick. [/QUOTE] Yes, they really ought to be able to focus on both IMO. 😛 -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/11 "2007-02-19T17:36:00Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] I don’t think the goal is possible. There are lots of simple experiments which demonstrate natural selection, sure, but nothing that will convince a creationist. They’ll just label it microevolution and fail to be impressed unless there’s live video of a dog giving birth to a parrot. [/QUOTE] If by “natural selection” you (or Savage) mean that the individuals that are “fittest” are more likely to survive and reproduce and pass on those characteristics that make them fittest to their offspring, I find this easy to believe, relatively easy to defend on TV, and not necessarily incompatible with creationism. What’s harder to grok is how this results in separate, individual species, instead of a continuous array of individuals between parrot and dog. I’m not challenging “macorevolution” personally here, just saying it’s a lot less intuitively easy to accept than “microevolution” is. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/12 "2007-02-19T17:51:19Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] I don’t think the goal is possible. There are lots of simple experiments which demonstrate natural selection, sure, but nothing that will convince a creationist. They’ll just label it microevolution and fail to be impressed unless there’s live video of a dog giving birth to a parrot. [/QUOTE] Shouldn’t that be the other way around? I mean, they’re not on the same “evolutionary line” and all, but shouldn’t birds come before mammals? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/13 "2007-02-19T17:58:00Z")
I suspect that Savage might have been joking - using natural selection as an example of the kind of thing that’s almost impossible to demonstrate in a lab experiment. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/14 "2007-02-19T18:02:17Z")
I sincerely doubt that anything they could possibly do would convince the creationist crowd to change their tune, but I’d still like to see the Mythbusters take this on. Of course, we’ll end up with “Anti-Mythbusters” protests, and some painstakingly researched TV specials about “Jesus horses” to try and counter the scientific evil that Adam and Jamie are pushing. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/15 "2007-02-19T18:06:56Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] I mean, they’re not on the same “evolutionary line” and all, but shouldn’t birds come before mammals? [/QUOTE] Nope. I think (and **Darwin’s Finch** , feel free to pop in) that mammals existed with the dinosaurs, just not very successfully; birds came from some dinosaurs. A gross oversimplification, but you get the point. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/16 "2007-02-19T18:26:16Z")
I kind of get the feeling that Savage is saying they really want to do SOMETHING on EvC, and are working Discovery Channel to let them do it, but understands it would be a difficult challenge to design and execute a bite-sized test for the show. I think they could probably show bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics or something but that might not be “sexy” enough for the producers. I think a fun and feasible idea for a show might be testing out the plausibility of Noah’s Ark. There are innumerable logistic and design problems with the Ark as described in Genesis and the subject would lend itself well to visual presentations of these problems, as well as provide opportunities to inject humor. Jamie and Adam could even try to modify the design and build a scale model of what the Ark would really have to look like in order to house all the animals without killing them and perform as it does in the Bible. True, this is not technically an EvC subject, but the flood often gets intertwined with that debate and it would be an opportunity to clearly bust a literal Biblical claim, which in itself might open some minds to the possibility that other parts of Genesis don’t have to be read literally either. ---
**Author:** ![Hung\_Mung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hung\_Mung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hung_Mung)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/17 "2007-02-19T18:32:09Z")
I sense…Kirk Cameron…reaching for a banana… ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/18 "2007-02-19T18:40:46Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Nope. I think (and **Darwin’s Finch** , feel free to pop in) that mammals existed with the dinosaurs, just not very successfully; birds came from some dinosaurs. A gross oversimplification, but you get the point. [/QUOTE] One of the earliest known mammals (or mammal ancestor) – _Hadrocodium_ – dates to about 195 million years ago. _Archaeopteryx_, generally considered to be the “first bird”, dates to about 150 million or so years ago. So both groups lived alongside dinosaurs, with mammals appearing slightly earlier on the scene than birds (though placental mammals arrived after birds, around 125 million years ago). And yeah, the prevailing thought is that birds are directly descended from a branch of theropod dinsoaurs. Of course, the point of **Gorsnak** ’s post wasn’t to illustrate any actual or even supposed evolutionary lineage; it was to demonstrate that to creationists, nothing short of one “kind” giving birth to another “kind” will satisfy them. And even then, they would probably just play it off as a miracle or something. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/19 "2007-02-19T18:45:57Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Shouldn’t that be the other way around? I mean, they’re not on the same “evolutionary line” and all, but shouldn’t birds come before mammals? [/QUOTE] Don’t be ridiculous. Everybody knows a parrot can’t give birth to a dog! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826/20 "2007-02-19T18:50:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I think they could probably show bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics or something but that might not be “sexy” enough for the producers. [/QUOTE] They could do the experiment in Kari’s butt crack… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mythbusters-wants-to-bust-creationism/392826.md?page=2)