# Myths about Myths about Girl Gamers **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 14, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436 "2009-05-14T18:34:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/1 "2009-05-14T18:34:02Z")
Recently I stumbled into this piece in the course of my internet meanderings: [Top Ten Myths About Girl Gamers](http://www.geocities.com/blackhatmatt/girlgamers.htm) While tabletop Roleplaying is still a male-dominated hobby with a lot of potential for wacky consequences when women get involved, I think the above article creates more myths than it dispels. It enumerates, that is, myths that propagate little, if at all, outside of the author’s head. And yet I found this link from another article that claimed that it [“neatly dissects this stereotype”](http://www.examiner.com/x-6911-Hartford-Gaming-Lifestyle-Examiner~y2009m5d12-Where-are-all-the-gamer-girls). Let me tackle these one at a time: > [@](#): > > **1. We want to control the entire game… and you.** > You think we want control of such a rag-tag group of guys? I’d rather go bobbing for apples in a deep fryer. If I wanted to control you, I’d show up at the game with a chair and a whip. Sit and ponder that, friend. I don’t suspect this is a common belief about female gamers. I suspect this arises out of a single person having been an asshole, and I don’t rule out the author as the asshole in question. > [@](#): > > **2. We’re there because you’re there.** > A girl gamer, a REAL girl gamer, is there because she wants to be. Let me ask you this: Do you think you’re charming enough to make a girl unwillingly spend an entire evening with a bunch of people who get that excited about rolling dice? I thought not. I’ll hazard that nobody thinks girls play D&D to meet the kinds of guys who play it. But there is a suspicion that some girls have discovered that it is gratifying to be in an environment in which female company is at a premium. It may be that the author herself has an adverse reaction to this extra attention, but she’s misinterpreting the behavior she’s observing. A genuine stereotype exists, however, which I have seen instantiated – the girl who plays because her boyfriend does but isn’t otherwise interested in the game. > [@](#): > > **3. We make an effort to date every gamer in the group.** > You got us there. We actually keep lists of the gamers we haven’t dated yet, and we check them off as we go. I got extra Girl Gamer Points (GGPs) because I dated all the eligible guys in our group and then managed to cause a major schism, causing half the people to quit talking to the other half. I traded my GGPs in for some rulebooks and a new dice bag and now I’m on the lookout for new victims… Get real. I’m in a quandary as to which is the more bizarre claim – that gamer girls are like this, or that anybody actually believes they are like this. > [@](#): > > **4. We should be in charge of dinner and/or cleanup.** > The next time you think about saddling the girl gamer with dinner preparations, consider her character first. If she’s playing a bitter extraterrestrial terrorist who hates everyone without provocation and dabbles in torture on the side because it’s fun, it’s probably not a good idea to ask. If her character is primarily engaged in kissing up and crocheting, go ahead. Ask. I suppose that there may be some old fatbeards or grognards who think this way, but even that seems unlikely nowadays. I have found that female gamers are far more likely to bring scratch-baked snacks or fresh-cut flowers to a game, but they are under no special pressure to do so. > [@](#): > > **5. We’re only interested in playing sex kittens or innocent ingénue-types.** > Hello, Pot. I’m Kettle. You’re black. > Sure, girl gamers have schticks. So do you, Mr. Lone Wolf… and you, Mr. Combat Monster. And, while we’re at it, let me ask you a question… How many of your characters wear black trenchcoats? Whose brilliant idea was it to give all the bad-asses black trenches? At least here I can believe that somebody actually believes this. And I suspect there are specimens of this type among female gamers. But if I were to generalize on my own anecdotal evidence, I’d conclude that female gamers are hack-n-slash types overall. > [@](#): > > **6. We are utterly incapable of understanding the rules.** > Once, I heard a gamer comment, “Hey, man, she’s a girl. Girls don’t get the rules; it’s like a math thing or something.” Buddy, I’ll out-math you any time… and then I’ll tear you into tiny little pieces and eat you for breakfast. We are quite capable of understanding the rules, if you’d explain them in something that approximates English, or loosen your death-hold on the rulebook and just let us read them for ourselves. I will stipulate that this is a real stereotype that exists outside of the author’s paranoia. Nevermind that she undermines her boast about math skills by dismissing the discussion of rules as arcane, and the scenario she depicts in which she is not even allowed to look at the rules is missing an important addendum to add credibility: “…this happened in the 1970’s.” The running joke is that Vampire: The Masquerade attracts the most female gamers because the stats are dots. But on average I have found female gamers only slightly less fascinated by the minutiae of combinatorical analysis, and only slightly less inclined to scour sourcebooks for ways to trick out their characters than the males. But based on the much smaller sample pool, the difference is too minor to generalize on. > [@](#): > > **7. We flutter our eyelashes at GMs to get our way.** > I did that once. The GM very politely gave me what I wanted and, then, I realized I didn’t want it after all (because, as we all know, a good GM gives you what you want and then makes you regret having ever asked). The end result was that I had to extract my foot from my mouth. If you let girl gamers walk all over you as a player or a GM, more fool you. You need to get out and date more, friend. Again, I believe that somebody actually believes this, and holds a grudge against female gamers on account of it. But she seems to be more confirming the stereotype than dispelling it. > [@](#): > > **8. We hate other girl gamers.** > Well, sure! Why not? After all, other girl gamers might hog all the GGPs and then we’d be out some valuable prizes. We have to protect our territory, after all. Get real. If a true girl gamer can’t stand another girl in your group, it’s either a personal thing or maybe that girl is one of those fake-scheming-break-up-the-group types we’ve been discussing. I hear anecdotal reports of queen-bee-ism in many walks of life, but I haven’t experienced it at the gaming table. My own possibly stereotyping assumption is that the kinds of girls attracted to roleplaying games are less inclined to behave this way. > [@](#): > > **9. We don’t appreciate a good combat.** > Correction: We do appreciate a good combat. What we don’t do is a) get sexually aroused over it or b) spend hours upon hours memorizing the caliber and number of shots for a revolver that was last used with regularity in the 1950s. We’ve got better things to do than memorize gun statistics. Like planning out how to spend out GGPs, for instance. The bullet point suggests that she’s going to make a point about the stereotype that female gamers are more interested in the actual roleplaying over combat. But that turns out not to be what she’s thinking at all. This is not a point about a mistaken belief male gamers have about female gamers. This is just a snark against nerds for being nerdy. I suppose you could extrapolate that she has a legitimate beef about certain gamers she knows dismissing her lack of nerdiness about hoplology in a sexist manner. Yet, she is also clearly engaged in gender-based smearing. > [@](#): > > **10. Because we are girls, you cannot hope to understand anything about us, including our roleplaying.** > Well… maybe there’s a bit of truth in that one, after all. J Yes, yes. Women be different from men. This non-point is just rounding out the ten. She has given short shrift to actual gender stereotypes peculiar to the roleplaying community in favor of general venom. This is mostly a list of complaints about male gamers, including what she imagines (quite preposterously in some cases) they think of her. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/2 "2009-05-14T19:03:13Z")
Never heard any of these attributed to Girl Gamers from Boy Gamers or seen this occur ever for there to be a trope about it. Very odd. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/3 "2009-05-14T19:03:15Z")
Yeah, her list of stereotypes is nothing more than it’s own meta-stereotype. On top of this, she throws in her own stereotypes that she has towards male gamers that she apparently is oblivious of. The fact that the guy commented on the article as neatly dissecting stereotypes means he’s probably as clueless as she is. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/4 "2009-05-14T19:08:07Z")
Girl RPG gamers… …yea right. Seen any Unicorns lately as well? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/5 "2009-05-14T20:39:28Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Girl RPG gamers… > > …yea right. > > Seen any Unicorns lately as well? > > 😃 Only if you’ve seen a Girl RPG gamer to attract one. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/6 "2009-05-14T20:47:54Z")
MMORPG - Many Men Online Role-Playing Girls. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/7 "2009-05-14T20:48:13Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > Yeah, her list of stereotypes is nothing more than it’s own meta-stereotype. Sounds like someone missed her PMS saving throw. What? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/8 "2009-05-14T21:11:38Z")
Huh, the only stereotype about gamer girls I’m aware of is that they’re rare. Which is probably true, at least compared to gamer guys. > [@](#): > > 1. We’re only interested in playing sex kittens or innocent ingénue-types. I’ve seen this dichotomy a lot in female characters played by guys, but I don’t think I would particularly expect it from female players. If anything, I’d expect it to be less common, since a woman is less likely to think of “female” as a large part of the description of a character. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/9 "2009-05-14T21:48:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve seen this dichotomy a lot in female characters played by guys, but I don’t think I would particularly expect it from female players. If anything, I’d expect it to be less common, since a woman is less likely to think of “female” as a large part of the description of a character. Yup. That’s what guys think of when they think female. I’ve played on text roleplaying sites on and off for about a decade. It’s easy to tell when a woman is played by a guy: the word ‘breasts’ is used in the character description. Women playing women either don’t mention the chest at all or describe the effect on body curvature very obliquely. It’s just not important to them, whereas it very much is with guys. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/10 "2009-05-14T22:51:18Z")
I know what a fatbeard is (strangely enough, I learned the term in a D20 Guide To Girl Gamers). But what is a grognard? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/11 "2009-05-14T22:57:16Z")
[Grognard.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grognard) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/12 "2009-05-14T23:59:13Z")
I started playing _Dungeons & Dragons_ back in the mid-1970’s, at a time when I showed up to gaming conventions I often had trouble just getting in the door because a lot of gamers didn’t want “girlfriends” hanging around. No, really, I’m a player! (Yeah, _that_ got misinterpreted in about .0000001 microseconds…) I’d say there was some basis in reality for some of those listed myths 30 years ago. In the past 10-15, though, the situation has _vastly_ improved, particularly once the male gamers get past 14 years of age and/or are no longer virgin. Also, we girl-gamers are a _lot_ more common these days, even if we’re still in the minority. In other words in 1980 this might have hit the mark. In 1990 it would be funny. In 2000 it’s a nostalgia piece. Nowadays it’s… “huh?” ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/13 "2009-05-15T00:20:22Z")
I never knew hoplology was a word. Awesome! ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/14 "2009-05-15T00:45:32Z")
Okay, can someone clear up whatever she’s yammering on about in 9? I can’t make heads or tails of it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/15 "2009-05-15T11:06:35Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Okay, can someone clear up whatever she’s yammering on about in 9? I can’t make heads or tails of it. Well, there are tendencies among nerds to be quarrelsome over details. People who are nerdy about things which you are not yourself nerdy about can be irritating. People who are nerdy about things you are also nerdy about are irritating as well, because you’re constantly having to correct their inferior knowledge. Strangely, this behavior can seem entirely pointless and stupid, and I imagine that if you have an expectation of sexism and little comprehension of nerd culture you could easily read squabbling over whether the double-action Colt would have been available for purchase in a given year may seem like dismissing you because as a girl you just wouldn’t understand. Or, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about either. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/16 "2009-05-15T11:50:44Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. We should be in charge of dinner and/or cleanup. > The next time you think about saddling the girl gamer with dinner preparations, consider her character first. Dinner preparations? What the hell kind of role playing group has dinner preparations? Step one: pick up phone, order pizza Step two: wait for knock on door, retrieve pizza. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/17 "2009-05-15T13:22:22Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Dinner preparations? What the hell kind of role playing group has dinner preparations? When John is GMing, the best kind. He tends to make foods that most of us have never even heard of. His house is the only place I’ve tried haggis, alligator, and Russian cola. (I can’t remember the names of some of the more esoteric things he cooked up.) At one point my own gaming group was gender-split 50/50. No one made a big deal out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/18 "2009-05-15T19:20:02Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Dinner preparations? What the hell kind of role playing group has dinner preparations? > > Step one: pick up phone, order pizza > Step two: wait for knock on door, retrieve pizza. I am guessing her RPG group had the standing rule “Bitch gets the door.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/19 "2009-05-15T22:07:51Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Dinner preparations? What the hell kind of role playing group has dinner preparations? > > Step one: pick up phone, order pizza > Step two: wait for knock on door, retrieve pizza. Right here, though I was usually the one cooking something thematic for that gaming night. The women I played with considered warming up a TV dinner to be “cooking”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436/20 "2009-05-15T23:43:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I started playing _Dungeons & Dragons_ back in the mid-1970’s, at a time when I showed up to gaming conventions I often had trouble just getting in the door because a lot of gamers didn’t want “girlfriends” hanging around. Yeah, it was like that. My wife was turned away from her high school gaming club in the late 70’s. She finally got to live out her lifelong dream of playing D & D when I started up a campaign last summer. I can remember being at a gaming session in the 80’s when a guy showed up with his girlfriend and we quietly took him aside to have a little talk. Things were a little better then. We were open to having girls around. We were just worried that she’d dump him when she found out how lame his hobby was. It took a lot of arguing on his part to convince us she really was a gamer and wasn’t just pretending to be interested because it was something he liked. Eventually he convinced us and a good time was had by all … . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/myths-about-myths-about-girl-gamers/496436.md?page=2)