# N.A. & S.A.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [April 18, 2000, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638 "2000-04-18T02:39:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/1 "2000-04-18T02:39:00Z")
Two questions here:
I know the N.A. you see at the end of some businesses’ names (banks are all I can think of right now) stands for National Association (or, at least, that’s what a banker told me). But what does that mean in terms of the business’ organization?
And, while we’re at it, what does the S.A. you see tagging along at the end of various south-of-the-border businesses’ names signify?
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### Author:  [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/2 "2000-04-18T03:20:00Z")
I think I have this one figured out. SA stands for Sociedad Anonima. There are various spellings for different countries and languages. If I’m translating correctly it means roughly Anonymous Company.
[Chech here for more info.](http://www.corporateinformation.com/definitions.html)
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“My mind reels with sarcastic replies!” - Snoopy
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### Author:  [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/3 "2000-04-18T03:23:00Z")
Oops. Forgot to say that the link also says something about the abbreviation N.A.
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“My mind reels with sarcastic replies!” - Snoopy
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### Author:  [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/4 "2000-04-18T08:46:00Z")
It’s not exactly clear from the link what SA means in practice. It’s pretty much the same as US “Inc.”, British “Ltd.,” or German “GmbH”, which is to say that the shareholders normally cannot be held personally liable for the debts or wrongdoings of the company they invest in.
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Work is the curse of the drinking classes. (Oscar Wilde)
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/5 "2000-04-18T12:58:00Z")
Way to dispell ignorance you guys, I always thought these (NA & SA) stood for North America and South America.
Boy, do I feel silly now.
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Wisdom is the boobie prize,they give you when you’ve been --unwise!
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/6 "2000-04-18T13:13:00Z")
Banks are chartered by various authorities and fall under various laws; these used to be required as part of their name. Thus the First National Bank was chartered under National banking laws, Community State Bank was under state banking laws, Southold Savings Bank was under NY Savings Bank regulations, etc. This doesn’t seem to be a requirement any more.
The N.A. indicates that the bank is chartered under the National (i.e., Federal) banking statutes. “N” is for “National.” I’m not sure what the “A” stands for, but I’d guess “Authority.”
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“What we have here is failure to communicate.” – Strother Martin, anticipating the Internet.
[www.sff.net/people/rothman](http://www.sff.net/people/rothman)
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### Author:  [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/7 "2000-04-18T13:22:00Z")
US: Co, Inc.
UK: Ltd, plc
South America, France: SA
Japan: KK
Germany: GmbH
… etc.
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### Author:  [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/8 "2000-04-18T13:22:00Z")
RealityChuck got the explanation right, but N.A. does stand for “National Association”. The equivalent for a Savings and Loan is FSB - Federal Savings Bank.
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After all, what is your hosts’ purpose in having a party? Surely not for you to enjoy yourself; if that were their sole purpose, they’d have simply sent champagne and women over to your place by taxi. – P. J. O’Rourke
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### Author:  [@KCB615](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KCB615)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/9 "2000-04-18T14:21:00Z")
## And here I was, thinking the OP meant “National Aeronautic & Space Administration.” Go figure.
Jeremy…
Nobody ever calls me after they’ve done something smart.
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### Author:  [@regnery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/regnery)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/10 "2000-04-18T14:28:00Z")
US companies can also use Ltd. Inc. and Ltd. simply mean that the shareholders have limited liability. If the company goes bankrupt, they don’t lose their home and car even if the company owes lots of money to various creditors (this doesn’t apply, of course, if the shareholders used some fraudulent scheme to rip off the company).
The US and Canada are pretty much the only places that use the abbreviation “Inc.” Furthermore, in the US, we use Inc. if the company is a publicly traded company or if it’s owned by two people. However, in many foreign countries, there are different corporate structures required for big companies and small companies. For instance, in Germany, the GmbH structure is simpler than the AG structure, but can only be used for small companies. AG companies requires two boards of directors, more disclosure, etc.
SA is an abbreviation used in a variety of countries such as France, Belgium, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, etc. Basically, if they speak French, Spanish or Portuguese, but also Romanian, Greek, or other languages, SA will be used. It basically means that the company is incorporated and that the shareholders have limited liability. Of course, the words vary from country to country and so do the exact requirements. Most other countries require a minimum investment in a company before it can be incorporated. This lowers the risk, of course, but also discourages company formations. In the US, you can register a company very easily. Not so in places like Denmark or Germany. In Germany, you have to have DM 50,000 (about $25,000) invested in the company. Stops a lot of people from forming companies. Not as many go bankrupt as in the US, but in the US, we get small little companies founded in garages that grow up to be Apple Computer, Microsoft or Hewlett Packard. Germany and most other foreign countries don’t.
NA, as has been explained here before, means National Assocation. It is used by banks, but that is really an outdated moniker, since banking laws have changed.
> [@](#):
>
> Originally posted by CKDextHavn:
> \*\*US: Co, Inc.
> UK: Ltd, plc
> South America, France: SA
> Japan: KK
> Germany: GmbH
>
> … etc.\*\*
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George M. Regnery
[http://www.corporateinformation.com](http://www.corporateinformation.com)
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### Author:  [@Yarster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yarster)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/11 "2000-04-18T15:48:00Z")
Thanks for that description! I always wondered why some German companies were ‘AG’ and others ‘GmbH’
As long as were building a list of wierd foreign corporate monikers, let me add that in my research, I’ve come across companies (in the Netherlands) using N.V. (which I assume doesn’t mean their incorporating in Nevada 🙂 )
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### Author:  [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/12 "2000-04-18T15:55:00Z")
## Yarster, if you check out that link I provided above it will give you the complete list of Campany Extensions including NV. But if you expect me to translate “Naamloze Vennootschap” you’re out of your mind.
“My mind reels with sarcastic replies!” - Snoopy
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/13 "2000-04-18T21:17:00Z")
For some time I was asked by B of A to write checks to it as “Bank of America, NT&SA”. Same sort of deal, as I recall.
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### Author:  [@JCorre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JCorre)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2000, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/14 "2000-04-18T22:18:00Z")
THe ‘NT&SA’ after Bank of America stand for ‘National Trust and Savings Association’
I know because i work there.(Actually I only have a few days left)
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### Author:  [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2000, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-a-s-a/10638/15 "2000-04-19T13:14:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Originally posted by regnery:
> **Most other countries require a minimum investment in a company before it can be incorporated. This lowers the risk, of course, but also discourages company formations. In the US, you can register a company very easily. Not so in places like Denmark or Germany. In Germany, you have to have DM 50,000 (about $25,000) invested in the company. Stops a lot of people from forming companies. Not as many go bankrupt as in the US, but in the US, we get small little companies founded in garages that grow up to be Apple Computer, Microsoft or Hewlett Packard. Germany and most other foreign countries don’t.**
The entrepreneurial atmosphere may be different, which could account for the difference in laws. The minimum investment doesn’t discourage company formation–it discourages incorporation.
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rocks