# N. and S. Korea firing artillery at each other **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483 "2010-12-09T00:27:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/261 "2010-12-23T22:34:34Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > He’s never been in a communist country Well, he did claim that no Communist country has ever existed or could ever possibly exist at any point in time. So by his own definition it’s impossible for anyone to ever visit one. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/262 "2010-12-24T00:05:02Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Well, he did claim that no Communist country has ever existed or could ever possibly exist at any point in time. So by his own definition it’s impossible for anyone to ever visit one. That’s further evidence he hasn’t visited purportedly communist countries–such as his idol, the People’s Republic of China–let alone grew up under the Soviet system. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/263 "2010-12-24T00:07:17Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, you ignorant sod; the South Korean military and the UN Command obviously do notice those exercises. What they don’t do is launch an attack on North Korea. > > And you have yet to correct me. Your stunning ignorance of actual conditions in communist countries belies your pretense. Great post, and an obvious oversight on the part of der Kommissar… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/264 "2010-12-24T00:58:59Z")
Are you people STILL feeding the troll? Go to your rooms! No dinner tonight. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/265 "2010-12-24T01:07:03Z")
Now that’s just no fair. If the troll gets fed then people should be able to have dinner too. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/266 "2010-12-24T01:08:21Z")
You used up all your food feeding him. Tough love, bud. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/267 "2010-12-24T20:10:56Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > What Monty said. I guarantee they watch the North Korean exercises very carefully. But they don’t threaten war over them, or call them aggression, or try to hold the position that a military exercise is an overt threat of war, like North Korea constantly does. An interesting theory. The one problem is that you have yet to account for the fact that the Western media magically fail to report these hypothetical exercises. What gives? Are your reporters blind, or do they consider said exercises non-news? I would be highly skeptical of the latter answer, given that your Imperial rags usually waste no time in disseminating contra-revolutionary propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/268 "2010-12-24T20:18:33Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > An interesting theory. The one problem is that you have yet to account for the fact that the Western media magically fail to report these hypothetical exercises. What gives? Are your reporters blind, or do they consider said exercises non-news? I would be highly skeptical of the latter answer, given that your Imperial rags usually waste no time in disseminating contra-revolutionary propaganda. Hmmm. Lets see… Conspiracy? In this envoronment where every secret, no matter how banal, is exposed? Or maybe the Western media simply doesn’t give a shit? Ah! That’s more likely! In fact, the media almost never mentions military exercises unless there’s some compounding factor that will help them sell advertising and papers. They _are_ capitalists, you know, and military exercises by a pathetic backwater like North Korea don’t rate even a single column-in on page e-15. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/269 "2010-12-24T20:22:26Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > And you have yet to correct me. Really now? You did not, at any past time, read that I was born and raised in the Soviet Union? You can, of course, choose to disbelieve that claim (as I do your outrageous “linguist” story), but lying about hearing it is disappointing. Incidentally, while we’re discussing the lying little turd that is your chosen persona, I would like to point out that you have yet to answer my only question posed to you. To recap: you claimed that all languages are more or less equally complex. I asked you the following: would a Mandarin speaker find it just as easy to learn Russian as English? You have dodged this question twice now. Care to make it three times, my dishonest little friend? ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/270 "2010-12-24T21:13:47Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > An interesting theory. The one problem is that you have yet to account for the fact that the Western media magically fail to report these hypothetical exercises. What gives? Are your reporters blind, or do they consider said exercises non-news? I would be highly skeptical of the latter answer, given that your Imperial rags usually waste no time in disseminating contra-revolutionary propaganda. Unlike North Korea, Belarus, the former Soviet Union, or China, we have a free and open press. The press is free to report or not report on what it likes. The vast majority of the readership could care less what the DPRK does, unless it’s killing people or saber rattling. The US does wargames and exercises constantly. The paper doesn’t report those either. So yes, for the vast majority of wargames that may be conducted in the DPRK, they are non-news events. I begin to get the impression you have no idea how a military functions. This is not a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/271 "2010-12-24T21:52:02Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Unlike North Korea, Belarus, the former Soviet Union, or China, we have a free and open press. The press is free to report or not report on what it likes. > > The vast majority of the readership could care less what the DPRK does, unless it’s killing people or saber rattling. > > The US does wargames and exercises constantly. The paper doesn’t report those either. > > So yes, for the vast majority of wargames that may be conducted in the DPRK, they are non-news events. > > I begin to get the impression you have no idea how a military functions. This is not a surprise. I’m not buying your argument. My default Western news source is BBC News; hardly a day goes by without a highly critical “news” article about North Korea. Most recently, I read an article entirely dedicated to unsupported rumor-mongering about alleged DPRK nuclear facilities. Given that the BBC seems to enjoy spreading anti-socialist propaganda, you really expect me to believe that it chooses to ignore the low-hanging fruit of near-border military exercises? Even when it takes ecstatic joy in reporting every single South Korean military exercise that takes place? Just take a look here: [http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=south%20korea%20military%20exercise](http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=south%20korea%20military%20exercise) Do you still wish to argue that military exercises are non-news? Very ignorant of you, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/272 "2010-12-25T00:12:08Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I’m not buying your argument. My default Western news source is BBC News; hardly a day goes by without a highly critical “news” article about North Korea. Most recently, I read an article entirely dedicated to unsupported rumor-mongering about alleged DPRK nuclear facilities. Given that the BBC seems to enjoy spreading anti-socialist propaganda, you really expect me to believe that it chooses to ignore the low-hanging fruit of near-border military exercises? Even when it takes ecstatic joy in reporting every single South Korean military exercise that takes place? Just take a look here: [http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=south%20korea%20military%20exercise](http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=south%20korea%20military%20exercise) > > Do you still wish to argue that military exercises are non-news? Very ignorant of you, my friend. Military exercises are generally only news when something untoward happens as a result of them…you know, a plane crashes and people are killed, or when an adjacent country uses them as an excuse to attack its neighbor…like in the case of North Korea. I find it utterly baffling that you can’t see how the DPRK essentially attacked the ROK for basically no reason at all, other than to get its next 15 minutes in the press so it can push its agenda (“Give Us Food…OR ELSE!!”). North Korea and you are equally deserving of contempt, and both of you create your strange alternate realities to fit your twisted world-views. Its no coincidence that basically every nation that matters on this planet hates/fears/despises North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/273 "2010-12-25T01:15:27Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Really now? Yes, really. > [@](#): > > You did not, at any past time, read that I was born and raised in the Soviet Union? Of course I read that. I just don’t happen to believe it since your posts themselves destroy your credibility. > [@](#): > > You can, of course, choose to disbelieve that claim (as I do your outrageous “linguist” story), but lying about hearing it is disappointing. Outrageous? Graduating from one of the top public universities in the world is outrageous? Interesting take. But I certainly didn’t lie about hearing your bs; I simply stated that your posts do not correct me. After all, you have no credibility. > [@](#): > > Incidentally, while we’re discussing the lying little turd that is your chosen persona, I would like to point out that you have yet to answer my only question posed to you. To recap: you claimed that all languages are more or less equally complex. I asked you the following: would a Mandarin speaker find it just as easy to learn Russian as English? You have dodged this question twice now. Care to make it three times, my dishonest little friend? Ah, you’re still unclear on the meanings of words. The problem is that I do not make up new definitions as you do and wonder why others do not know those purported definitions. I distinctly recall telling you that it would be more comfortable for someone to learn a foreign language that happens to be in the same language family as their native language. Of course, that was regarding a tangent which you introduced with that bs about you learning English “by osmosis.” Anyway, a Mandarin speaker very well may encounter the same problems with learning Russian as with learning English as both target languages have a decidedly different system from Chinese regarding a few points of grammar: tense, agreement, word order. For those of us trainined in Linguistics, we know that these are not all that there is to language. And for those of us trained in good manners, we know that yours are quite lacking. By the way, you are not my friend. My friends are decent and honest people. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/274 "2010-12-25T02:55:06Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Are you people STILL feeding the troll? “Fellatio-puppets” ended my doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/275 "2010-12-25T03:28:51Z")
Speaking of the People’s Republic of China, here is an interesting note from page 60 of the November 2010 issue of _The American Legion_: > [@](#): > > _[FOREIGN AFFAIRS]_ > _ **Better late than never** _ > > China is officially re-rewriting its history of the Korean War. After 60 years of insisting the war began when the United States assembled an army of 15 countries “and defiantly marched across the border and invaded North Korea,” a government journal now concedes that on June 25, 1950, “the North Korean army marched over the 38th parallel and started the attack.” [Speaking of the Sunshine Policy,](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AH12520101118) _Reuters_ had this to say: > [@](#): > > South Korea’s peaceful “Sunshine Policy” toward North Korea failed, a government report has found, saying there have been no positive changes to Pyongyang’s behavior despite a decade of mass aid and encouragement. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/276 "2010-12-25T15:24:07Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > [Speaking of the Sunshine Policy,](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AH12520101118) _Reuters_ had this to say: So the a study by the current administration says that a policy pursued by a previous administration from the opposite party, a policy they strenuously protested on philosophical grounds, didn’t work? I’m sure its an unbiased study. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/277 "2010-12-25T18:37:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So the a study by the current administration says that a policy pursued by a previous administration from the opposite party, a policy they strenuously protested on philosophical grounds, didn’t work? I’m sure its an unbiased study. :rolleyes: Well give NK’s complete and utter batshit insane actions, and monstrous behavior, biased as the conclusion may be, I don’t see reason to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/278 "2010-12-25T19:28:39Z")
I’m sure we will get the real truth after the Great Leader Kim scores a few more holes in one or performs some other miracle. Really, why would you trust Reuters’ when you have a guy that can piss on your toast and turn it to butter? Have all the rolleyes been used up yet? If not her ya go :rolleyes:. That anyone with two brain cells to rub together can defend NK’s actions is beyond me. I guess that’s how they got in the mess that they are in. Due to exposure to information (and facts) the people of North Korea will turn on the sham that is their government. It will cost a great deal in the beginning, but will provide a much better life for generations to come. It’s just a matter of time. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/279 "2010-12-25T21:06:19Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > It will cost a great deal in the beginning, but will provide a much better life for generations to come. It’s just a matter of time. The biggest problem is that it’s not a cost anyone seems willing to pay, or in many cases even afford. If something were tried similar to German Reunification the cost are huge. Germany has spent over 80 billion Euro bringing the East up to par, and even now they still have some problems. People in the East still see the West as arrogant and unhelpful. When they choose a college plenty of students from the former East Germany will head west but almost no westerners ever go to school in the east. Marriage between people living in the two halves is still practically non-existent. And even with all the problems still remaining it’s pretty amazing Germany has done as well as it has. Even if the North Koreans get up and toss Jong-Il and his family out and ask to join South Korea there’s little South Korea could do on it’s own. The basic costs in just infrastructure would dwarf what the Germans have paid, let alone the the additional costs of educating and feeding the North. At least the East Germans weren’t dealing with famines. And Germany funded it “in house” so to speak, there’s no way South Korea could even think about doing that. China certainly isn’t going to help since it’s very unlikely that South Korea would ever give up the US as an ally. So does the US get to rebuild another country? Could the US even afford to right now? There’s also how would the newly united Koreans feel about each other. The people living in the two halves of Germany are still working out their issues and they never went to war with one another. It’s going to make things very tricky even if they want to work together. It really sucks to be North Korean. Your government is batshit insane and hell bent on not only destroying the country but pissing off the entire world too. They’ve been led into a pit that’ll take billions of dollars and decades of time for them to get out of. Nobody really wants to help because of the huge costs, but each year those costs just go up and that hole gets deeper. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/280 "2010-12-26T00:38:53Z")
Good points **Oldeb**. But something has to give. And it will be up to the North Koreans to change and rebuild their country. Once and IF they can get goof balls like Kim Jong out of control, I would support sending in agricultural equipment and tools to build. Not rebuild, since they pretty much are 50 years behind. It’s scary. GWB and his cronies did quite a job on the USA in only 8 years. But, we are recovering. Imagine 50 years of that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483.md?page=15)