# N. and S. Korea firing artillery at each other **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483 "2010-12-09T00:27:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/121 "2010-12-11T11:27:21Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > A translation isn’t really feasible, since all of our best songs tend toward allegory and playfulness with the complex Russian language. Any competent student of Linguistics can tell you that “a translation isn’t really feasible” is pure malarkey. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/122 "2010-12-11T12:25:29Z")
I looked up Visotsky and found [quite a few translations](http://www.kulichki.com/vv/eng/songs/) of his songs, though this list may represent only a small part of his repertoire. I find myself amused by titles like _I am Fated to Argue to Very Last Day_ and _I’ll Answer All Your Questions_, since Commy seems doomed to the former because he won’t do the latter. Nothing quite like _I lived wonderfully in the first third_, which frankly sounds like someone’s attempt at a literal translation stemming from their inability to understand the idioms of the original. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/123 "2010-12-11T14:17:46Z")
**Bryan** : I also got a kick out of the comment about “the complex Russian language.” So difficult that millions of little Russian children are speaking it. Language is language, no matter where you are. As you say, there are plenty of people who understand and can even translate the language in question. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/124 "2010-12-11T17:02:44Z")
какой шальной комиссар! crazy commissar… ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/125 "2010-12-11T18:13:17Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > A translation isn’t really feasible, since all of our best songs tend toward allegory and playfulness with the complex Russian language. [ > [@](#): > > In other news, the Chinese government is fair, all-knowing, and wise, propelled by the strength of two billion loyal hands, all pulling together as one under the Great Celestial Bureaucracy high above. > > Experts all agreed that there can be no question of this claim, as this claim is the truth. > > As of press time, the brute and inexpressive English language could not convey the full magnificence of China, nor its excellence in every arena, nor the protective warmth of the red sun that shines forever on its borders, nor the innumerable glories of its Great Leaders. > > New reports also indicate that China will grow stronger yet. ]([http://www.theonion.com/articles/china-strong,2756/](http://www.theonion.com/articles/china-strong,2756/)) We’ve been infiltrated by the Onion. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/126 "2010-12-11T19:18:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > какой шальной комиссар! > crazy commissar… “What a playful commissar?” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/127 "2010-12-11T19:29:26Z")
Don’t be сдуру Then that is: какой шаловливый commissar AFAIK. 🙂 But take it from a guy that came very close of joining the guerrillas in El Salvador, your ideas of what is an empire and if communism is the beesnees are totally off the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/128 "2010-12-11T19:32:12Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > See my question was based on basic human needs and liberties. Yours is based on some kind of paranoia. > > Education is a key part of being upwardly mobile. Just so we’re clear does universal access to education through federal grants, scholarships, and government backed loans count? > > Because even “the empire” has that, or is the magic word free that important to you? > > However a quick google search found [this](http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/14/world-happiest-countries-lifestyle-realestate-gallup-table.html). > > Followed by a 5 second copy and paste job. > > [Denmark](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark#Education) > > Can you handle the [Finland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland#Education_and_science)? > > With a side of [Norway](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway#Education)? > > Fucking easy, because I value people, not ideology. > > Now it’s your turn to put up or shut up. You appear to have taken a page from Bryan Ekers’ playbook, as your response clearly reveals a lack of attention to my previous post. I explicitly stated that one of my requirements is that the nation be immune to institutionalized political changes benefiting the bourgeois. Using words that you can potentially understand: voting bad. If people can vote in a right-wing political party, their nation fails my test. Indeed, all three of your nations fail this prong: > **[A new airline on the way for Finland](https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/international-news/3904.html)** > > “THE airline Airlink Åland plans on starting flights between Mariehamn and Helsinki, Ålandstidningen reports. This article is about recent right-wing gains in Finland. But do not the following sentence: “This has also been a central factor in the rise of right-wing populism in Norway and Denmark.” Heh. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/129 "2010-12-11T19:43:34Z")
This is precisely what I meant when I stated that Russian is a complex language. Imperial ignoramuses (not necessarily you) tend to assume that all languages are easy because, hey, English is pretty easy, right? English is monosyllabic grunting in comparison to Russian. Russian uses tone, context, tenses, and subtle wording changes that would completely baffle the Imperial mind. Needless to say, they also baffle the Imperial online translators. It’s really painful to watch people attempt to translate phrases into Russian using shitty programs they’ve just stumbled upon via Google. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Don’t be сдуру > > Then that is: > > какой шаловливый commissar > > AFAIK. 🙂 No, just no. “Cдуру” literally means “stupidly,” but is better translated as “mindlessly” or “without thinking.” It is not used as a noun, but rather to describe specific actions. For example, you could say something like, “I got totally drunk that evening, and then сдуру decided to drive home.” You cannot call somebody “сдуру.” It makes no sense. Also, “шаловливый” and “шальной” are same term using different phrasing. Because Russian is like that, that’s why. We don’t just use one word to describe one concept when we could use five to ten terms that all mean the same damn thing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/130 "2010-12-11T19:48:26Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > You appear to have taken a page from Bryan Ekers’ playbook, as your response clearly reveals a lack of attention to my previous post. I explicitly stated that one of my requirements is that the nation be immune to institutionalized political changes benefiting the bourgeois. Using words that you can potentially understand: voting bad. If people can vote in a right-wing political party, their nation fails my test. And things like that demonstrate that you are not aware that democracy is not for sissies. Failure is a part of politics. Any nation that keeps a single party in power eventually encounters that a wall of their own design will prevent them from going forward. The only test for a nation to fail should be that the right wing party (or left wing) stops elections after taking power. People in EL Salvador did the same thing, they did continue to vote for a right wing party but people did eventually learn that the right wingers did not do much of anything for most of the population, the former guerrillas won recently, and they may fail in the next elections, but for the right-wing to come back they will have to adopt some ideas of the current government. YMMV if you do not like the rate of progress that this system is giving us. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/131 "2010-12-11T19:53:14Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > No, just no. “Cдуру” literally means “stupidly,” but is better translated as “mindlessly” or “without thinking.” It is not used as a noun, but rather to describe specific actions. For example, you could say something like, “I got totally drunk that evening, and then сдуру decided to drive home.” You cannot call somebody “сдуру.” It makes no sense. Just testing to see if you are truthful in at least one item. And BTW the smile and the AFAIK were there to say that I was not sure, but there you go again ignoring context. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/132 "2010-12-11T20:01:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And things like that demonstrate that you are not aware that democracy is not for sissies. It’s just more trolling. Tao asks if Commy can name a single nation that follows his mishegas that still respects fundamental human rights, like not starving its people to death, not imprisoning/torturing/murdering them for voicing their opinions and not dictating what their place is in the world and prohibiting them from attempting any sort of upward mobility. Commy, naturally, avoids the question and tries to turn it on the person asking him and begins playing his silly game. Now, if you have the ability to vote and effect political change, the country is a failure. Of course, the totalitarian regimes that he love are covered in failure, but if people vote for something that’s less than optimal, zomg the Empire, the Empire! Ayieeee! Commy is a troll who plays a fascist, that’s pretty much all there is to it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/133 "2010-12-11T20:17:43Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Commy is a troll who plays a fascist, that’s pretty much all there is to it. I agree on that, of course he can still be an idiot savant at the same time. Regardless if the has a degree. (Big deal, I have one and the experience to get another one) I have to clarify, like I do in cases like this, that I post not for the troll, but for all the lurkers and readers out there. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/134 "2010-12-11T20:25:59Z")
Fair play, then. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/135 "2010-12-11T20:52:12Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > You appear to have taken a page from Bryan Ekers’ playbook, as your response clearly reveals a lack of attention to my previous post. I explicitly stated that one of my requirements is that the nation be immune to institutionalized political changes benefiting the bourgeois. Using words that you can potentially understand: voting bad. If people can vote in a right-wing political party, their nation fails my test. > > Indeed, all three of your nations fail this prong: > > [http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/international-news/3904.html](http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/international-news/3904.html) > > This article is about recent right-wing gains in Finland. But do not the following sentence: “This has also been a central factor in the rise of right-wing populism in Norway and Denmark.” Heh. Try again. So Finland isn’t ruled by perfect cyborgs with a warranty forever. Just good people that care about their fellows. Could you at least take a crack at my question? Could you even name one totalitarian country that’s a nice place to live for the average Joe? Do it! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/136 "2010-12-11T21:01:24Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > This is precisely what I meant when I stated that Russian is a complex language. Imperial ignoramuses (not necessarily you) tend to assume that all languages are easy because, hey, English is pretty easy, right? Where did I say English is easy? I’m far more conversant than you appear to be about what language is. Care to guess what degree I earned? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/137 "2010-12-11T21:16:59Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So Finland isn’t ruled by perfect cyborgs with a warranty forever. Just good people that care about their fellows. > > Could you at least take a crack at my question? Of course he can’t. Your question for him was for him to name a totalitarian state that doesn’t trample on basic human rights, he then refused your question and demands that you name a non-totalitarian state that’s totalitarian. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/138 "2010-12-11T21:48:02Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So Finland isn’t ruled by perfect cyborgs with a warranty forever. Just good people that care about their fellows. I get all the “caring” I need from my loved ones. Yes, I want politicians to “care about” the rest of us, but I expect them to do their jobs rationally and efficiently. A tea-bagger may genuinely care about Imperials, but that is not a very good reason to hand over any type of political power to him. Given a choice between a right-wing nutjob that cares deeply and a socialist that couldn’t care less, I’d go with the socialist. > [@](#): > > Could you at least take a crack at my question? > > Could you even name one totalitarian country that’s a nice place to live for the average Joe? > > Do it! I’m not sure what you mean by “totalitarian” here, so I will read your questions as follows: “Could you even name one [socialist authoritarian] country that’s a nice place to live for the average Joe?” Of course, and you should already know the answer. The magnificent People’s Republic of China, may we be allowed to bask in its glory for all eternity. As a freebie, I’ll also throw in Vietnam and Belarus. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/139 "2010-12-11T21:54:45Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Where did I say English is easy? I’m far more conversant than you appear to be about what language is. Care to guess what degree I earned? Whatever degree you have supposedly earned, it has not prevented you from making such bizarre statements as: “Bryan: I also got a kick out of the comment about “the complex Russian language.” So difficult that millions of little Russian children are speaking it. Language is language, no matter where you are. As you say, there are plenty of people who understand and can even translate the language in question.” You cannot be serious… So, all human languages are equally complex because they are all spoken by some people somewhere? What a load of nonsense. Young humans beings have an amazing knack for learning languages; this does not mean that all languages are inherently easy. English is dead simple; I picked it up by nothing more than osmosis during my teen years. Russian, on the other hand, is fiendishly complex, which is why non-native Russian speakers tend to have such a hard time trying to learn it. We have words, concepts, and linguistic rules that have no English equivalent. Consequently, it’s very simple to translate English into Russian, but the reverse is not always true. I could give you a literal, good translation of the song in question, but you would lose all of the nuances and wordplay, thus rendering the exercise pointless. It’s like describing a stunning rainbow to a congenitally blind individual; you can try, but I don’t see it working out. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483/140 "2010-12-11T22:21:08Z")
I “supposedly” earned a degree in Linguistics. The knowledge I gained doing that is what keeps me from making the ignorant comments about language you make. I also am quite familiar with a leading language training school where more than a few non-native speakers of Russian learn that language and learn it well. Your trolling is getting less interesting as the holidays approach. Or should I say as the break nears its end? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/n-and-s-korea-firing-artillery-at-each-other/563483.md?page=8)