I’m with Contrapuntal - I think you should consider supplying some evidence to support this assertion.
Upthread, I mentioned the case of Pete Rose. Do you consider that relevant?
Is there an example of a black John Daly? A fuckup with a bunch of ex-wives, battery charges, an alcohol and gambling problem who is an absolute hero to a bunch of white people?
Can you imagine a black man in that position?
Yeah, it’s different for white folks.
Darryl Strawberry might be an example. After problems with alcohol, drugs, spouse abuse, the IRS and failure to pay child support, and a stint in the minors, he was signed by the Yankees and contributed to two World Series wins.
Who said it was not “different for white folks”, whatever that means? What do ex-wives and alcoholism have to do with it? Does the PGA even have rules against gambling? If so, they are honored more in the breech.
IIRC, Daly lost his Callaway endorsement when he quit re-hab.
If Manning were to gamble, be guilty of federal conspiracy charges and extreme cruelty to animals, he would be in violation of his NFL contract. Has Daly violated some contract with golf, and been given a free pass? Hasn’t he, in fact, been suspended from the Tour on several occasions?
All of which has nothing to do with Wee Bairn’s assertion that Manning would still be playing and still have all his endorsements if he had done the same thing as Vick. That’s just absurd.
Nah. I don’t mean just being able to contribute athletically. Darryl Strawberry is a pariah. John Daly has dozens of endorsements, is paid handsomely to give clinics and appear at corporate outings, and is cheered enthusiastically wherever he goes. Not so for Darryl.
I’m not saying that Peyton Manning would get a free pass. Those who say that race isn’t a factor are hopelessly, hopelessly naive.
**I **never said race was “not a factor,” whatever *that *means. I simply said that the NFL would treat Manning and Vick the same. If you are suggesting that race played a part in Goodell’s decision to suspend Vick, and are doing so without any supporting evidence, well, that seems a bit naive to me.
It’s not always about race every time a black man gets punished.
Daly was never convicted of a crime. He never pled guilty to a crime. He lost endorsements as a result of alcoholism. He has redeemed himself, at least as far as his fans are concerned. So he has a fan base. So what? Are they racists? Vick’s supporters outnumbered his detractors at his press conference. He will Are they racists?
Sometimes when you violate federal anti-conspiracy laws, fund illegal gambling operations, and torture animals, it’s about what you did, not what color you are.
You’re flailing about here. I’m not arguing with you. I’m also not talking about the NFL’s response, I’m talking about the reaction of the public at large. I imagine the NFL would bend over backward to avoid being seen as treating black athletes differently.
The reference to John Daly is an example of how some white athletes are treated differently. There is no direct comparison to the Michael Vick situation at all. Calm down.
Well, according to the link I supplied:
So “pariah” may not be accurate here.
I take it you haven’t been around Mets fans much. 
But Wee Bairn pretty clearly was talking about the league’s response, which is what produced the comment from Contrapuntal.
If there’s no direct comparison at all, then it’s questionable whether Daly’s situation is an example of different treatment.
You have done nothing to establish that John Daly was treated differently* because he was white*. You have done nothing to establish that their transgressions were even remotely similar, rendering any comparison useless.
If you were not talking about the NFL’s response, perhaps you should not have used my quote as a jumping off point.
Where do you see anything about “the public at large?” I was talking about Vick, and the NFL. If you were not, why respond to my post at all? If the comparison is not to the Michael Vick situation, why is it even in this thread?
:rolleyes:
My apologies, I meant to add the roll eyes smile after that comment-
"Correct, if this was Peyton Manning, no one would even care, he would still be playing and have all his endorsements and commercials, still host SNL, etc." :rolleyes:
Of course Peyton Manning would be in the exact same trouble, only he wouldn’t, becasue he’s not an evil bastard like Vick is. Vick is getting the same treatment as anyone else would- he’s a disgusting and deeply disturbed person.
I was referring to the “Why would you think that?” part. I can certainly see now why you would see it differently. I’m sorry.
I brought up John Daly as an illustration of how a white athlete with a checkered past is embraced as a hero, and asked if there is or could be a black athlete in the same situation.
What brought this on was that I have heard several callers to sports talk radio recently being cut off in mid sentence when they clearly said something rascist and had to be dumped. These were all callers talking about Vick.
Frankly, I think Daly is a special case. He has a lot of fans, but I don’t think that he is universally embraced as a hero. My guess is that he Tour tolerates him because he is popular, but I would also guess that he is one screw-up away from being suspended again. I am certain that most, if not all of his fans are white, but Daly is almost the archetype of the good old boy. He is also in a sport that is 99% white, at least as far as the PGA is concerned.
What you are saying is that the callers were saying negative things about Vick, right? I don’t mean to be a smart aleck, but I suspect that the callers to radio sports shows are not a very representative cross section of the public.
In terms of public response, I think Vick really screwed up at exactly the wrong time, in exactly the wrong way. Roger Goodell is cracking down on bad behavior. Americans really love their pets. Vick has a bit of a checkered past already. He recently signed an enormous contract. He initially denied any involvement at all. All of this combined to create a large, vocal backlash. Does being black figure in? I suppose it could, in that blacks generally get screwed in the legal system more than whites. But everyone I know* is pissed at him because of the dogs. They could give two shits about the rest. He is seen as a privileged athlete who thinks he is above the law, and a torturer of animals.
*Everyone I know, just about, is an animal lover. Perhaps not the best sample.
Not to defend John Daly, but he’s an alcoholic and gambling addict, and so far has not injured anyone else due to these problems. Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley, two black athletes much more famous than Daly, are admitted gambling addicts, so no double standard there. I don’t know of any black athletes who have been shunned for being alocholics either.
And because of that, he might be in BIGGER trouble. Near as I can find out, Manning is seen as a pleasant fellow who has farther to fall than Vick, who comes across as an egotistical asshole. Based only on their public personas, the reaction of most people to Manning would be, “How could he?” but to Vick it would be, “What do you expect from such a jerk?”
Actually, you were trying to prove injustice by showing unequal treatment before the law. You were showing Vick isn’t getting what other rich athletes get. I argue whatever Vick gets is far better then I would ever get. Outrage is therefore valid. So you spare me.
For what it’s worth, I did not know that dogfighting is apparently popular amongst some blacks, and so when I first heard this story assumed that Vick was white (and I actually did assume that rather than simply “white-by-default”, but it wasn’t an important enough story or an important enough distinction for me to hunt down a picture.) It didn’t seem like an outrageous thing to be going after someone for, and their race doesnt change the fact that it should be a prosecutable crime.
Most dog owners know the nurturing effects, trainability, and general sweetness you can foster in your pets, if you take the time. “Screwed up” shelter dogs, and puppies respond and learn quickly from positive feedback and can be terrific companionship and part of the family.
It’s percieved by many that blacks excessive issues with violent criminal behavior and other problems are exascerbated by their upbringing. If nurtured properly, it is believed, they would fair better in life and sociaty.