# NAFTA's over 9 years old now - Did it work as advertised or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129 "2003-06-02T14:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/1 "2003-06-02T14:11:10Z")
We’re now over 9 years past the point the [NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement)](http://www.mac.doc.gov/nafta/implement.html) was signed. I would imagine we should be able to get some short term economic and historical perspective on whether it has worked as the proponents advertised, or failed as the detractors predicted at this point. What happened? Did it work as advertised below… or not? > [@](#): > > Overview > > Implemented on January 1, 1994, the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), is a comprehensive trade agreement that improves virtually all aspects of doing business within North America. NAFTA eliminates nearly all tariffs by 2008 between the U.S. and Mexico by 1998 between the U.S. and Canada, and removes many of the non-tariff barriers, such as import licenses, that have helped to exclude U.S. goods from the other two markets, especially Mexico. > > NAFTA ensures that investment will not be coerced by restrictive government policies, that U.S. investors receive treatment equal to domestic investors in Mexico and Canada. At the same time, NAFTA’s extensive easing of cross-border services rules ensures that if U.S. companies do not wish to invest in another country to provide their service, they do not have to. > > The best intellectual property provisions ever negotiated by the United States ensure that the U.S. competitive advantage in high technology is fully protected. NAFTA provides for guaranteed access to lucrative government procurement contracts in Canada and Mexico ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/2 "2003-06-02T15:22:18Z")
**astro** you sure you don’t have a body double called David Orchard? Well the WTO says that world trade averages out to about 5% over the same period. During the same period Canada’s trade has doubled for a growth rate of 8%. [http://txt.2ontario.com/welcome/txt\_coib\_503.cfm](http://txt.2ontario.com/welcome/txt_coib_503.cfm) Now mind you over the same period our reliance on the US has also dramatically gone up and our dollars has dropped so it’s possible it’s not nearly as advantageous as it might look. From a Canadian perspective the deal (along with the FTA) was to secure access to American markets. As the crowd will quickly fill you in, protectionist forces in American domestic politics can wreck havoc on exporting countries (i.e. Softwood lumber), steel etc. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/3 "2003-06-02T19:03:17Z")
As far as I am aware it has. Sort of. It increased trade between the three countries, and probably gave a boost to Mexican exporters. I don’t think any countries are wildly better off because of it, and indeed, Mexico may be worse off since American businesses destroyed what little domestic industry Mexico had. I dunno. I’ll call it a wash. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/4 "2003-06-02T19:22:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*. . . Mexico may be worse off since American businesses destroyed what little domestic industry Mexico had. > \*\* Speaking from first-hand experience with a large Maquiladora factory in Tijuana…um… No, Mexican industry is alive and kicking… In fact, one interesting thing is that we’ll hire Mexican labor for technical or managerial jobs, and, just about the time they’ve been trained and brought up to speed…they leave and go into business for themselves! So the very success of the program is causing upward pressure on wages! Seriously, from what I’ve seen, the program is helping to build a tier of small Mexican industries. However, I must confess that my perspective is narrow… Things might be different in other fields… Trinopus ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/5 "2003-06-02T19:39:09Z")
> [@](#): > > In fact, one interesting thing is that we’ll hire Mexican labor for technical or managerial jobs, and, just about the time they’ve been trained and brought up to speed…they leave and go into business for themselves! Hey, my company performs the same service for the benefit of the Indian and Pakistani IT community! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/6 "2003-06-02T20:24:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grey \* > \*\ ***astro** you sure you don’t have a body double called David Orchard? \*\* You mean [this guy](http://www.davidorchard.com/online/2do-index.html)? Nooo… I don’t think so. I don’t think I could dress that badly if I tried. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/7 "2003-06-02T22:59:02Z")
Consensus that I’ve heard from people who should know: On the whole, NAFTA is doing well, although some things are moving slower than expected. Obviously, it’s hard to judge anecdotally. Some companies and some industries are hurt or helped, so you have to look at the big picture. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/8 "2003-06-03T00:22:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trinopus \* > \*\*In fact, one interesting thing is that we’ll hire Mexican labor for technical or managerial jobs, and, just about the time they’ve been trained and brought up to speed…they leave and go into business for themselves! \*\* Speaking from an economic development point of view this is probably the single greatest thing that could have happened because of NAFTA. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/9 "2003-06-03T00:58:56Z")
Amen. And it’s one thing RAH predicted. Anyone read it? I think it’s Expanded Universe, The Best Of All Possible Worlds. Not quite the same… but close. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/10 "2003-06-03T10:12:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*You mean [this guy](http://www.davidorchard.com/online/2do-index.html)? Nooo… I don’t think so. I don’t think I could dress that badly if I tried. \*\* Sorry **astro** , inside Canadian joke. The Progressive Conservative (Centre Right) just finished a leadership convention and David Orchard played king maker. The PC’s introduced FTA and NAFTA to a wildly under whelmed Canada. This guy’s king maker play states that there will be a blue ribbon review of NAFTA. It all wrapped up Sunday or your question was nicely timed. Snappy mustache no? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/11 "2003-06-03T10:13:34Z")
so your question damn ---
**Author:** ![tastycorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@tastycorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tastycorn)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/12 "2003-06-03T10:39:29Z")
Now , I was just a youngin when all this NAFTA stuff happened, but I seem to remember the powers that be talking about new jobs inside the US as well as outside. Or even just keeping the jobs we did have. Or…maybe…not having millions of highly skilled and even more highly motivated people working at Taco Bell for minimum wage just so their kids don’t starve! I truly don’t understand why no one else seems to be really upset about this. If we no longer make the useless crap this great nation was founded upon, then we can’t afford to buy the useless crap, and if we’re so far in debt that we can’t even finance other countries crappy commerce, then where in the hell are we going to get our crap?!?! Oh, yeah, and NAFTA didn’t help, but it did do exactly what it was supposed to do, just not what they told us it would do. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/13 "2003-06-03T10:45:40Z")
In Canada part of what the FTA and NAFTA were suppose to do, was to keep US market open in the event of protectionist measures. I’m giving it a provisional pass despite steel and softwood lumber. ---
**Author:** ![tastycorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@tastycorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tastycorn)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naftas-over-9-years-old-now-did-it-work-as-advertised-or-not/179129/14 "2003-06-03T10:56:48Z")
Protectionist = self preservation = staying around long enough to continue to import Celine Dion albums. I guess I’m against it on a purely aesthetic basis.