# Naive: umlaut on the i, or no? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 24, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939 "2004-02-24T18:29:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarmaComa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e36b37/32.png) [@KarmaComa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarmaComa)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/1 "2004-02-24T18:29:31Z")
I put an umlaut on the i in naive. Do you? Is this generally accepted in English, or is it really just a French thing for diphthongs? ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/2 "2004-02-24T19:02:37Z")
> [@KarmaComa](#): > > I put an umlaut on the i in naive. When you use a diaeresis (those dots) to prevent two letters from being parsed as a diphthong (or transliteration of an umlaut in languages where that is applicable) it is called a _trema_. An umlaut changes the pronunciation of the individual letter by moving the location of articulation to the front (and “i” as in “naive” can’t have an umlaut because it is already as far in front as possible.) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/3 "2004-02-24T19:09:50Z")
_From the GorillaMan Style Guide_ If you use a foriegn letter, which the _trema_ suggests (thanks Kellner), then put the word in italics. If you’re using it as an anglicised word, then a regular I suffices. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/4 "2004-02-24T19:31:47Z")
_Naive_ appears in _Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary,_ 11th edition, both with and without the diaeresis; the form without it is listed first and thus generally preferred. I would say that the diaeresis is accepted as a variant in English. As a copyeditor, I am willing to use either version. Generally, I consider it a style decision and follow the author’s preference unless I have instructions from the client to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![KarmaComa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e36b37/32.png) [@KarmaComa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarmaComa)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/5 "2004-02-24T19:52:41Z")
> [@kellner](#): > > When you use a diaeresis (those dots) to prevent two letters from being parsed as a diphthong (or transliteration of an umlaut in languages where that is applicable) it is called a _trema_. An umlaut changes the pronunciation of the individual letter by moving the location of articulation to the front (and “i” as in “naive” can’t have an umlaut because it is already as far in front as possible.) Thanks kellner! I know that I was misusing both _umlaut_ and _diphthong_, but what fun would it be to describe abuse of language without abusing language? 🙂 I guess I’ll just do the old search/replace for na" \i ve… I thought it was standard but it seems it isn’t, and is probably considered a bit pretentious. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/6 "2004-02-24T21:25:42Z")
My understanding is that the diaresis is accepted in english, although it’s been falling out of use in the last several decades, and this trend has accelerated with the move to cold type. The disresis is also appropriate in words like coöperation or coördinate to indicate that both “o”'s are pronounced. Otherwise you’d think you should pronounce cooperate as \. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/7 "2004-02-24T21:47:31Z")
“coöperation”??? …that’ll come as a surprise to the [Co-operative Bank](http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![rkts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@rkts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rkts)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/8 "2004-02-25T04:30:05Z")
“Coöperation” and “coördinate” are silly and pretentious. Until they start teaching kids to spell that way in kindergarten, it will only add confusion to the language and do nothing for clarity except in the conceits of a few self-absorbed intellectuals. _Naive_ has been so thoroughly assimilated into English that in my opinion the diaeresis can be dropped. But I wouldn’t consider it pretentious if I saw it with the diaeresis. The masculine form, _naïf_, as in _faux-naïf_, is, however, so obviously still a borrowing from French that the diaeresis is absolutely necessary, in my opinion, even though the dictionary permits it. ---
**Author:** ![rkts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@rkts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rkts)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/9 "2004-02-25T04:32:22Z")
That is, even though the dictionary permits it without the diaeresis. You know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/10 "2004-02-25T04:48:48Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > My understanding is that the diaresis is accepted in english, although it’s been falling out of use in the last several decades, and this trend has accelerated with the move to cold type. The disresis is also appropriate in words like coöperation or coördinate to indicate that both “o”'s are pronounced. Otherwise you’d think you should pronounce cooperate as \. > > –Cliffy Coöperate? Reëlect? I’ve only EVER seen those in the New Yorker - was that common usage at one point? Seems silly to me . . . but naïve very reasonably may, in my opinion. I tend to use it, I think, but maybe I’m just a pretentious bastard. I prefer it; after all, do you ever see né (or née) without the accent? A lot of French words are normally written with their accents in English; it’s always a soupçon, never a soupcon. Why should naïve be any different? ---
**Author:** ![rkts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@rkts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rkts)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/11 "2004-02-25T05:53:18Z")
> [@](#): > > do you ever see né (or née) without the accent? A lot of French words are normally written with their accents in English; it’s always a soupçon, never a soupcon. Why should naïve be any different? _Naive_ is a more thoroughly anglicized word than _né_(_e_) and _soupçon_ are; further, it is a common word not only in print but in speech also, meaning its pronunciation is widely known and the diaeresis would be very unlikely to be helpful to anyone reading it. Plus, _ne_, _nee_, and _soupcon_ look stupid. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/12 "2004-02-25T08:56:50Z")
As do ‘roue’, ‘jette’, ‘flambe’, and ‘saute,’ and ‘divorce’ (meaning divorcé) is just completely unhelpful. ---
**Author:** ![Mariemarie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@Mariemarie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mariemarie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-umlaut-on-the-i-or-no/230939/13 "2004-02-25T12:51:43Z")
I would use umlauts, cedillas, and acute accents if I weren’t too lazy to figure out how to do it on the VB boards.