# "Naive" - what's the deal with the two dots? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776 "2003-09-05T17:47:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/1 "2003-09-05T17:47:46Z")
I have seen the word “naive” in print many times using a character that looks like an “i” with two dots instead of one. What is this character called? Why do people feel they have to print “naive” this way in English - why not just use the regular “i” character? Are there any other English words that use this character? ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/2 "2003-09-05T17:54:03Z")
It’s called a dieresis (with the accent of the second syllable) and is used to indicate separate syllable pronunciation within the word. In other words, don’t say NAVE, say nigh-EVE. You used to see it on coöperate and Noël, for a couple of examples. I think it’s a good thing to see it phased out. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/3 "2003-09-05T17:55:13Z")
It’s called a diaeresis (or dieresis in American usage). It shows that the two vowels are pronounced separately, rather than as a diphtong, i.e. “nigh-eve”, rather than “nave” or “nive”. It is also present in words such as Noël (No-ell, rather than Nohl), and Citroën (which in the proper French pronunciation is roughly Sit-roh-awhn … “Sitron” in French sounds like the word for “lemon”!). In older texts you may see “co-operate” spelt as “coöperate”, for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/4 "2003-09-05T18:00:14Z")
Websters: Main Entry: di·aer·e·sis Pronunciation: dI-'er-&-s&s, British also -'ir- Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural di·aer·e·ses /-"sEz/ Etymology: Late Latin diaeresis, from Greek diairesis, literally, division, from diairein to divide, from dia- + hairein to take Date: circa 1611 1 : a mark ¨ placed over a vowel to indicate that the vowel is pronounced in a separate syllable \>\> (with the accent of the second syllable) Die-EH-re-sis It is also used in French, Spanish and other languages. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/5 "2003-09-05T18:00:33Z")
Darn, beaten to the punch - and, weirdly enough, with the same examples! ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/6 "2003-09-05T18:09:55Z")
By the way, **MonkeyMensch** , why do you think it’s a good thing that diaereses have become an endangered species? Personally, I love little typographical oddities like this. Give me a good old **encyclopædia** listing places like **Haïti** and **Zaïre** , and the legendary **phœnix** any day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/7 "2003-09-05T18:30:19Z")
Well, I love that sort of thing too, **r\_k**. I’m a logophile with a penchant for minutiae from way back. Over the years, though, I’ve realized that ridding ourselves of some of the artifacts of the written word from years past might be a good thing. At the very least you take away opportunities for folks to mis-use those features and in doing so piss off the folks who know how to use them correctly. ---
**Author:** ![tullius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tullius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullius)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/8 "2003-09-05T20:13:02Z")
The **New Yorker** still uses diaerises (e.g., “coöperate”). ---
**Author:** ![NFlanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@NFlanders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NFlanders)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/9 "2003-09-05T21:06:57Z")
So is dieresis just English for umlaut? Or is an umlaut something else? ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/10 "2003-09-05T21:16:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NFlanders \* > \*\*So is dieresis just English for umlaut? Or is an umlaut something else? \*\* > [@](#): > > The word [umlaut] is also used to refer to the diacritic mark composed of two small dots placed over a vowel (¨) to indicate this change in German and Hungarian (the same mark as used to indicate diaeresis in other languages). > **[Diaeresis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis)** > > Diaeresis (dieresis, diëresis) /daɪˈɛrɪsɪs/ may refer to: > **[Umlaut](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umlaut)** > > Umlaut may refer to: Reading the umlaut link, ‘umlaut’ is when you modify the pronunciation of a vowel, and ‘diaeresis’ is when you pronounce consecutive vowels independently. But ‘umlaut’ is also used to refer to the pair of dots on top of a vowel. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/11 "2003-09-05T21:23:24Z")
**r\_k** _Give me a good old encyclopædia listing … and the legendary phœnix_ Ah, count me in: I’m afraid they’re going the way of archæology and palæontology. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/12 "2003-09-05T21:37:11Z")
So, is anybody lonely for “hôtel” to return to English, in that case? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/13 "2003-09-05T21:41:19Z")
So what’s “æ” called then? ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/14 "2003-09-05T21:51:11Z")
G’dau ‘æ’ could be either the letter ash or a ligature of the letters a and e. If you see it in Old English it is probably ash, if you see it in Latin probably the ligature. Regards, Agback ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/15 "2003-09-05T22:10:32Z")
In ‘intellecutal circles’ (read pretentious) ‘naif’ is quite often used. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/16 "2003-09-05T22:36:40Z")
And in case you want to know all the “codes” for making those special symbols, this webpage has all of them:       \*\*[http://www.1728.com/altchar.htm](http://www.1728.com/altchar.htm) \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/17 "2003-09-09T12:01:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by r\_k \* > and Citroën (which in the proper French pronunciation is roughly Sit-roh-awhn … “Sitron” in French sounds like the word for “lemon”!). Not really. It’s to indicate the pronunciation **sit-roh-enn** instead of a nasalation, sit-roh-eng, in the last syllable. ---
**Author:** ![Qazzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/aeb1de/32.png) [@Qazzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qazzz)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/18 "2003-09-09T13:35:51Z")
Am I the only one who has a terribly difficult time emphasizing the second syllable of dieresis and not the third? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/19 "2003-09-09T14:02:53Z")
**Qazzz** , I’m totally the same way. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![FP\_work](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/85e7bf/32.png) [@FP\_work](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FP_work)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/20 "2003-09-09T14:06:20Z")
Nope. “di-er-EE-sis” sounds a hell of a lot more natural to me than “di-ER-ee-sis”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776.md?page=2)