# "Naive" - what's the deal with the two dots? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776 "2003-09-05T17:47:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/21 "2003-09-09T14:26:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \* > \*\*In ‘intellecutal circles’ (read pretentious) ‘naif’ is quite often used. \*\* Really? I’d only seen it used as the noun, as in a “naive person.” But I see that it checks out in the OED, which also notes that “Some uses [of “naïf” vs. “naive”] may reflect an attempt to apply naive to feminine subjects and naïf to masculine, in imitation of the French use.” “Naïf” as an adjective does sound pretentious, though. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/22 "2003-09-09T14:33:16Z")
In extemely precise English, whenever two vowels separately sounded occur together in a word, a diaresis is used over the second vowel to indicate that it is to be sounded separately. While often it’s obvious – zoology is not zoo -ology but zoe -ology – sometimes it helps to clarify. For example, reappear obviously has nothing to do with the reaping of pears, but is re- + appear, and putting a diaresis over the a when it appears as “reap- pear” at the end of a line helps to avoid the double-take. It’s also a useful guide to pronounciation. Tolkien used it in his coined names (meant to be read as foreign names in an English narrative) to indicate that a final -e was actualy sounded as an -eh, not serving to give a long sound to the preceding vowel. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/23 "2003-09-09T16:53:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qazzz \* > \*\*Am I the only one who has a terribly difficult time emphasizing the second syllable of dieresis and not the third? > \*\* Pronouncing it that way makes it sound like you require a dose of kaöpectate. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/24 "2003-09-09T17:12:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Tolkien used it in his coined names (meant to be read as foreign names in an English narrative) to indicate that a final -e was actualy sounded as an -eh, not serving to give a long sound to the preceding vowel. And, of course, the Brontë sisters were using it long before he was. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/25 "2003-09-10T04:19:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by r\_k \* > And, of course, the Brontë sisters were using it long before he was. Zoë and Chloë preëmpted the Brontës. And shouldn’t it really be spelled diëresis? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/26 "2003-09-10T05:16:00Z")
And presumably my favourite band are spelt _Blue Öyster Cult_ to distinguish the Ö from the preceeding e … ? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/27 "2003-09-10T10:17:35Z")
Strangely nobody really seems to know why rock and metal bands love the umlauts/diaereses. I think it may have something to do with the German “Gothic” font that they often use, making umlauts look appropriate. Of course, Spinal Tap had one over the “n”, just to be different. ---
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/28 "2003-09-10T10:28:07Z")
I have always referred to that particular mark as “nostrils,” particularly since I have noticed its use in the New Yorker (which certainly seems to have its collective nose in the air anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/29 "2003-09-10T10:31:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*So, is anybody lonely for “hôtel” to return to English, in that case? \*\* It is interesting that the circumflex over the vowel in French often represents a ‘lost’ s from the same word in Old French. Makes sense of lots of words: Hôtel Hostel Pate Paste etc ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/30 "2003-09-10T21:15:37Z")
Pjen, you mean pâté, paste, I’m sure. Others are île, isle and bête, beast. And Coeur d’Alêne used to have a circumflex too. BTW, if you don’t want to memorize all those codes for diacritic characters, there’s various tools you can download from the net that will do the job for you. For instance, I like a tool called Character Agent which can be found at [www.bjondi.com](http://www.bjondi.com) ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/31 "2003-09-11T01:21:33Z")
There’s also another very correct pronunciation of naive that sounds like ‘nyiff.’ Any dictionary will show it as an alternative pronunciation. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Brocascious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d26b3c/32.png) [@Brocascious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brocascious)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/32 "2003-09-11T01:45:52Z")
I was in a diner one time in Albany and I ordered some breakfast. About 10 minutes later the waitress brings me a plate with two little black dots on it. I politely replied: “Ma’am, I asked for an omelet. Not an umlaut.” ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776/33 "2003-09-11T20:14:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brocascious \* > \*\*I was in a diner one time in Albany and I ordered some breakfast. > > About 10 minutes later the waitress brings me a plate with two little black dots on it. > > I politely replied: “Ma’am, I asked for an omelet. Not an umlaut.” \*\* You do realize jokes that poor are a banning offense, right? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naive-whats-the-deal-with-the-two-dots/199776.md?page=1)