# NajaNivea/Michael Vick/boar Hunting/Pitbulls **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277 "2009-11-28T22:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/61 "2009-11-30T14:52:59Z")
I know people who have boar hunted. For those of you in the stands, only one of them has ever tried to use a pitbull. Most of them use standard hunting dogs… Red Tick, Blue Tick, etc… And I happen to not have a problem with pitbulls either, just for the record. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/62 "2009-11-30T14:56:49Z")
Count me in the camp for killing more boars. I live near the Smokies. A few years back they tried to reintroduce the wolf (so they wouldn’t have to organize PitA deer hunts every few years), but the damn boars apparently kept killing the young. Those things tear up everything and they’re agonizing to get rid of. They’re hardy, range a bit, and don’t cluster so there’s no easy method of whacking them. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/63 "2009-11-30T15:16:28Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They breed them as big as they can and as mean as they can. They are still pit bulls. Vick was not breeding show dogs. He was breeding pits though. Vicks dogs are what I am more likely to encounter in the park. Hoping against hope, I will ask you, as I have asked you before, to explain how such inherently vicious animals could be so completely [rehabilitated](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/magazine/12/22/vick.dogs/index.html). How can it be that giant dogs who want nothing more than to fight and fight and, in your words, "eat their owners, could become family pets. How dogs who were tortured and abused in order to be better fighters could become therapy dogs How the fuck is this possible? [QUOTE=NajaNivea] Yes, we fucking well do know that. That’s why those of us who know what the fuck we’re talking about object to ignorant assholes like yourself using a collection of phenotypic traits to lump a wildly disparate bunch of breeds together, and go around insisting that one specific breed is responsible for any anti-social act committed by any canine with a stocky build, short coat, and semi-prick ears. [/QUOTE] I have a Jack Russell Terrier. She’s a rescue, but only because the breeder was no longer going to use her as breeding stock, so she has papers and everything. I suppose though, that if enough people called her a Poodle, that’s what she’s be. I mean, that’s how language works, right? ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/64 "2009-11-30T15:26:02Z")
I actually own an Old Southern White English Bulldog who used to hunt hogs. I’ve never hunted hogs with him, because it’s not even remotely close to my thing. He was a champion dog, perfect conformation, perfect temperament, shitzun trained. He’s not a giant marshmellow, but I’ve gotten off topic. He used to hunt hogs, and he used to **love** it. I saw one video of him doing it and he just enjoyed himself doing that as much as I’ve seen him enjoy anything, ever. He’s just past 9 years old now (which is a respectable age for his breed), and hasn’t done it in over 5 years, since we got him, so he’s probably not fit to do it anymore. He’s probably done it a dozen times in his life, though. The video I saw of him doing it… he had the most blissful look on his face, and when we got him he wasn’t a happy dog (he wasn’t a “sad” dog either, he was just a generally non-emotive animal). When we got him, he was a kennel dog, stud and show dog. He was not, as you and I normally discuss it, a pet any more than a cow or a chicken is a pet. Would I hunt hogs with my dogs? No, I certainly wouldn’t. Would I begrudge someone who does? After seeing how much the dogs enjoy themselves, I can’t say I do. I do begrudge the ones who don’t take the proper safety precautions, though. My understanding is that depending on the dog, they wear leather ‘vests,’ and have medical supplies standing by (stitches, things like that). It’s exceedingly rare, when done properly, of these dogs being badly injured (beyond stitches) and the odds of them being mortally wounded are even rarer than that. All that said, it’s only my _understanding_, I’ve never participated in the ‘sport’ myself. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/65 "2009-11-30T15:53:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I do not believe that’s the case today; today I believe it is a blood sport, and not moral. What “you believe” and the facts as they stand clearly have no connection. What “you believe” on a topic you know absolutely nothing about is approximately as useful and valid as what Jenny McCarthy believes about vaccines. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/66 "2009-11-30T15:55:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If you can’t catch the boar without using dogs, lose some fucking weight and be quicker. It doesn’t matter how ladylike your figure, you can’t outrun a run wild boar. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/67 "2009-11-30T16:03:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Try, **NajaNivea** is involved on a national board of directors for boar hunting, therefore **NajaNivea** is evil (or at least a pretty fuckin’ immoral person). While I’m no fan of hunting, I think NajaNivea makes a compelling case. At any rate, calling them evil and immoral is just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/68 "2009-11-30T16:08:26Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > I actually own an Old Southern White English Bulldog who used to hunt hogs. I’ve never hunted hogs with him, because it’s not even remotely close to my thing. **American** bulldog, my mistake. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/69 "2009-11-30T16:09:51Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Time to educate you again. When you breed 2 purebreds you get a bunch of puppies. When they mature enough ,you decide if they are showable. You check the color, the confirmation and size. Some of the puppies will be too big to show.Some might be too small. They are over or under the dog show breed standards. That does not mean it is not a pit bull. What that means is is is not a dog show pit. It is still a pit bull. > Some people like the big ones and try to breed them with other big pits. They are producing pits that are not dog show standard pits. But they are pit bulls. Let me clue you in on something, you moron. You can’t breed two thirty-five pound dogs and birth a litter of 110lb dogs. Someone along the way has been adding in all kinds of other blood to achieve those results. French and Italian mastiffs (Dogue de Bordeaux and Mastino) are favorite choices for this. Adding in molossoid blood, you wind up with dogs that look [like this](http://www.freewebs.com/dragons_den/bandog.jpg), which is the picture that you and any other member of the general public has of a “pit bull”. That they’re\* mixed-breed dogs\* has no impact on you, whatsoever, because you have no functional knowledge separating one breed from another. They all look generally the same to your untrained eye, thus they must all be the same, right? Again… an argument that they’re more common, more commonly mishandled, and that you’re more likely to encounter such a pit bull (or even a mixed-breed dog that looks like a pit bull) than an equally poorly-handled Mastino is a defensible argument, and logical. Arguing that pit bulls carry some genetic or physical trait that makes them more dangerous than any other breed of dog on the planet by a “supernova like” degree is _not._ ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/70 "2009-11-30T16:44:23Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > What is there that distinguishes a pit bull? It is not the biggest dog. It does not have the most bite pressure. Nope .it is it’s nature. It will fight, and fight and fight, like no other dog. They just keep on coming.. See? **This** is where the comment about boar hunting came from. **gonzomax** ,\*\* LHOD\*\* and the other idiots keep popping in to insist that “pit bulls” carry some genetic “psychosis” that drives them to murderize like no other dog that exists. They seem not to be able to grasp that any number of working dogs were bred to “fight, and fight and fight”, to “keep on coming”. This includes a broad spectrum of dogs, including dogs bred to fight wolves, coyotes, foxes, mountain lions, bears, wild boar, and _human beings_. When their attention is called to this matter, they fall into setting up [poodle](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11823424&postcount=171) [shaped](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11825286&postcount=204) strawmen and knocking them down, hence the use of boar-dogs as illustration for a number of breeds whose bite power and tenacity these idiots wave away as “irrelevant”. That none of them have any functional knowledge on the topic, and cannot conceive of the power and tenacity behind such a working-breed dog is clear. This doesn’t stop them from insisting that a pit bull has some magical, mythical, super-canine powers. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/71 "2009-11-30T16:50:36Z")
[Poodles will turn on you in an instant.](http://blogs.app.com/saywhat/2009/02/23/poodle-bites-off-womans-nose/) ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/72 "2009-11-30T17:45:51Z")
What people in general fail to realize is that animals are just that, **animals**. Dogs all come from fucking wolves. **Wolves for gods fucking sake!** Do you realize that within each and every dog there is an equal potential for maiming and killing? 30 pounds muts can kill humans as easily as 160 pound mastiffs. There’s no effective difference, the only common thread through most dog attacks is not breed, it’s neglect or shitty ownership. If you think differently, go fuck yourself, you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/73 "2009-11-30T17:47:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I thought this Pit thread was coming. Good for you. NajaNivea is simply an apologist. He’s got religion and there’s no penetrating it. But I did find this gem to be almost worth it: > > I guess I’ve “seen” the inside of the Oval Office, the Great Wall of China, the Hope Diamond, and Elle McPherson naked. This changes everything. Oh, and then there’s our bright and shining pal, **magellan01** , originator of this exchange: > [@The "Pit Bull" Myth](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/153): > > [QUOTE=NajaNivea] > > No more dangerous than, say, boxers, shepherds, great danes, dobermans, rottweilers, borzoi, various and sundry cur breeds, briards, akitas, shar-pei, chows, rhodesian ridgebacks, American bulldogs, any of the pastoral flock guardian breeds, and so on and so forth. They fall into a class of “medium to large working breed dogs” which necessitate more active management than sedentary breeds or, say, sporting and companion breeds which were selected for soft temperaments and close companionship. Okay. So, you agree that not all dogs are equally dangerous. That the ones you mention above probably, on average, cause more of a problem than others not on your list. I agree. But I see this is the initial way to slice it. After that, if one breed (any one of them) is bred to fight, selectively encouraging those traits that make it better at killing—both physically and tempermentally—that breed would be become MORE dangerous than if not so bred, wouldn’t it. And, therefore, MORE dangerous than those other dogs. Right? [/QUOTE] > [@The "Pit Bull" Myth](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/154): > > …You do realize, of course, that a fair number of those breeds up there were bred to fight _human beings_, selectively encouraging those traits that would make them better at killing _human beings_ both physically and temperamentally…right? That several of the breeds are bred to fight wolves, foxes or coyotes, a couple for lions or mountain lions, a whole bunch of them for wild boar…? So yes, I do agree with your statement–that dogs bred for battle-related work duties have stronger temperaments and greater potential for harm if involved in human conflict. As I said, _many_ medium and large working breeds fit the bill, pit dogs no more so than any other. > [@The "Pit Bull" Myth](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/155): > > So, in theory, if one of these breeds were bred to be even better fighters, be even more powerful, and be even more aggressive and unrelenting once they’re involved in a fight, that breed would be on a track to be potentially more dangerous than all the others. Correct? > [@The "Pit Bull" Myth](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/156): > > You don’t think a wolfhound is expected to fight to the death? Or a pastoral flock guardian? You think Great Pyrenees breeders are peachy-keen and dandy if their flock guardian takes a powder because he gets concerned about his own skin? What about boar dogs? A hog dog that quits in the middle of a fight gets other dogs and the hunter killed, and you can most certainly bet that dog is going to get a quick bullet in the head if he manages to survive the fight after tucking tail and running. > You don’t think a lion hunting dog is bred to be a relentless killer once engaged? > > What about protection dogs? Do you think that working doberman breeders breed dobies who, when they get smacked around a little, pack it up and go home? Any of the eastern European herding breeds (GSD, Malinois, etc), you think people spend fortunes and lives breeding dogs to chase and fight bad guys, but who give up when the going gets tough? > [@The "Pit Bull" Myth](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/157): > > Thanks for not answering my question. I thought as much. But now I can leave you alone again and go debate Young Earth Creationists. My skills are so lacking I need an audience who is more open to reality and more open to the idea that they might be wrong. I’ll leave you to your Benign Pitbullism. > [@The "Pit Bull" Myth](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/158): > > Sigh. > Okay, sure. Now, why don’t you go ahead and tell me how this hypothetical applies to a 35-40lb dog bred to fight other 35-45lb dogs, more so than any number of 80-100lb+ breeds bred to fight to the death against wolves, coyotes, lions, wild boar, or _human beings_? A question to which, of course, I received no reply. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/74 "2009-11-30T17:52:24Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > …the only common thread through most dog attacks is not breed, it’s neglect or shitty ownership. > > If you think differently, go fuck yourself, you’re wrong. Good luck with that, I’ve been trying to argue this point with the same ignorant assholes seen in this thread, here on these boards for at least [two years](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453117). Pit bulls are magic satan hounds, though, so they’re \*different. \* :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/75 "2009-11-30T17:54:17Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > It’s absolutely insane that on a board whose motto is “fighting ignorance since 1973” and whose members routinely pat themselves on the back for their intelligence, this thread exists. > > NajaNivea begins a thread in Great Debates about the myths surrounding pit bulls . . . Wholebean . . . all enter the thread because as everyone knows, pit bulls are Satan’s pets and must be stopped before they do any more damage to the very fabric of our society. > > To prove their assertions, they’ve got nothing but urban legends, faulty generalizations and even more faulty documentation and research on their side. They think, however, if they keep repeating the same tired myths it will somehow prove something. reread the thread in question, ignorant fucking knee-jerk douchebag. **whole bean** never perpetuated a myth. **whole bean** ’s objection to pit bulls and pit bull mixes was (and is) their tendancy to dog-aggression. **whole bean** and **naja nivea** were debating the best (and worst) methods for culling these animals (specifically mixes) from animal shelters. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/76 "2009-11-30T18:17:07Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > reread the thread in question, ignorant fucking knee-jerk douchebag. **whole bean** never perpetuated a myth. **whole bean** ’s objection to pit bulls and pit bull mixes was (and is) their tendancy to dog-aggression. **whole bean** and **naja nivea** were debating the best (and worst) methods for culling these animals (specifically mixes) from animal shelters. Is there a reason you’re referring to yourself in the third person? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/77 "2009-11-30T18:20:43Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > 30 pounds muts can kill humans as easily as 160 pound mastiffs. See, this just isn’t true, no more so than saying a 5’7 man can dunk a basketball as easily as a 7’’ man. Sure, a 30 pound mutt is capable, under the right circumstances, of killing a human and a random 30 pund mutt might be as likely to _attack_ a human, but cover me in gravy and force me into a ring with a dog, I’ll take my chances with the mutt as I am much more confident in my ability to kill it. All things being equal, it would much _easier_ for the 50 pound APBT to kill me than it would for my 27 pound Pembroke Welsh Corgi ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/78 "2009-11-30T18:22:09Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Is there a reason you’re referring to yourself in the third person? **whole bean** refuses to have his posts mischaracterized ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/79 "2009-11-30T18:59:06Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > See, this just isn’t true, no more so than saying a 5’7 man can dunk a basketball as easily as a 7’’ man. Sure, a 30 pound mutt is capable, under the right circumstances, of killing a human and a random 30 pund mutt might be as likely to _attack_ a human, but cover me in gravy and force me into a ring with a dog, I’ll take my chances with the mutt as I am much more confident in my ability to kill it. All things being equal, it would much _easier_ for the 50 pound APBT to kill me than it would for my 27 pound Pembroke Welsh Corgi Believe it or not, that’s not entirely true. The vast majority of human beings go into shock after being bitten by a dog, whether they’re bitten on an appendage or their body – no matter the size of the dog. People don’t get into cage fights with animals, the majority of attacks are done to the unsuspecting. While it’s true that small dogs, like toy dogs, are not of any significant danger… dogs of a certain size and larger are all equally dangerous. That danger is more likely from neglectful or abusive owners than the breed of the dog, is my point. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/80 "2009-11-30T19:06:41Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I can see the arguements for Pit Bulls being like hand guns: > > 1. They are needed for home defense. > 2. They are needed for boar hunting. > 3. They are needed for defense against boars. I had a pit for a number of years, totally trustworthy and gentle with kids. But I never had any boars attack my house. I guess number 3 is true 😃 I have nothing else, since I’ve been in too many of these argument threads already. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277.md?page=5)