# NajaNivea/Michael Vick/boar Hunting/Pitbulls **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277 "2009-11-28T22:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/81 "2009-11-30T19:09:53Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > It doesn’t matter how ladylike your figure, you can’t outrun a run wild boar. If one was chasing me, I’d damn sure try :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/82 "2009-11-30T19:13:31Z")
> [@History\_Mystery\_and\_the\_Wolf](#): > > I think **NajaNivea** makes the more compelling case here. Just my two cents. I agree. Inasmuch as **NajaNivea** is arguing from a position of citation to appropriate authority to support factual claims and the opposition is relying upon nebulous ad hominem attacks, appeals to emotion, and unsupported gratuitous assertions about morality, as an observer with (forgive the phrase) no dog in this hunt, I find **NajaNivea** makes the best case. I also find it hilarious that having lost the debate in GD, the OP retreats to The Pit, where this brand of attacking the person instead of the argument is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/83 "2009-11-30T19:46:32Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Believe it or not, that’s not entirely true. > > The vast majority of human beings go into shock after being bitten by a dog, whether they’re bitten on an appendage or their body – no matter the size of the dog. People don’t get into cage fights with animals, the majority of attacks are done to the unsuspecting. > > While it’s true that small dogs, like toy dogs, are not of any significant danger… dogs of a certain size and larger are all equally dangerous. That danger is more likely from neglectful or abusive owners than the breed of the dog, is my point. I don’t know what the “that” in “that’s not entirely true” is supposed to be. Not to rely exclusively on personal experience but I have been bitten by dogs on several occasions - once a Rottweiler bit to the bone on my leg - and never went into shock. Even, if you’re right (I seriously doubt I am going to get a cite for the claim that “the vast majority of human beings go into shock after being bitten by a dog”) what sort of wound is likely to send someone into shock? I can kill someone just as dead with safety scissors as I can with a machete, but it’d be a lot easier with the machete. Let’s imagine two scenarios, under each I am to respond after having been bitten. In the first, the attacker is my aforementioned 27 pound Pembroke Welsh Corgi. His name is Earl. He looks like [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pembroke_Welsh_Corgi_600.jpg) In the second, is my buddy’s English Mastiff, his name is Logan. He looks like [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mastif_angielski_pregowany_768.jpg). He weighs in the 180’s. Neither dog has, in my experience, indicated a desire to off me, but let’s just say they have a change of heart. I’ll take my chances in countering Earl’s attack. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/84 "2009-11-30T20:08:40Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > I do begrudge the ones who don’t take the proper safety precautions, though. My understanding is that depending on the dog, they wear leather ‘vests,’ and have medical supplies standing by (stitches, things like that). It’s exceedingly rare, when done properly, of these dogs being badly injured (beyond stitches) and the odds of them being mortally wounded are even rarer than that. The collars and vests are made of ballistics Kevlar. Dogs often do or don’t wear protective cut gear, depending on the terrain and cover. In open ground moving quickly they afford a high degree of protection, but in deep brush and heavy, rocky cover, they can greatly hamper a dog’s agility and speed, and put him at greater risk for harm. Hunters absolutely do carry full emergency kits in preparation for serious wounds on dog or human. I don’t think anyone of the PETA POV who sees human involvement in the death of any animal as a “bloodsport” on par with dog fighting can truly understand what a serious thing this is–they imagine only the dogs themselves are at risk and it’s all just a sick, bloody game. Some people do it for fun, but not very many, just like not very many go swimming with sharks as a weekend lark. Ground-hunting wild boar is a deadly serious activity, no joke, and is a matter of life, limb, and survival for many: dogs, hunters, farmers, crop-consumers, and native indigenous species alike. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/85 "2009-11-30T20:27:08Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Neither dog has, in my experience, indicated a desire to off me, but let’s just say they have a change of heart. I’ll take my chances in countering Earl’s attack. No doubt, but frequently the point is moot when the victim is an (pdf)[unattended](http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dog3.pdf) [child](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5226a1.htm), which most serious dog bites and dog bite related fatalities are. The difference between hypothetical jaw strengths in a Chow Chow and a pit bull doesn’t make much difference when you’re five. Or [six weeks](http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/2001/pomeranian.html). According to all relevant authorities, the primary route to dog bite prevention isn’t breed-specific, it’s **constant vigilance** (!\*) for dog-owners with their dog around any child, and for child-owners with their child around any dog. Demonization of pit bulls is just a red herring. \*😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/86 "2009-11-30T21:29:06Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > If one was chasing me, I’d damn sure try :eek: And I don’t mind betting that if it caught up to you your figure would be several ounces more ladylike in a matter of moments. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/87 "2009-11-30T21:35:32Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > And I don’t mind betting that if it caught up to you your figure would be several ounces more ladylike in a matter of moments. :eek: I have a pretty good idea what a full grown boar can do, I’d probably not live long enough for anything to matter. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/88 "2009-11-30T23:12:05Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > **gonzomax** ,\*\* LHOD\*\* and the other idiots keep popping in to insist that “pit bulls” carry some genetic “psychosis” that drives them to murderize like no other dog that exists. They God fuckin damn, you’re stupid. This is not remotely what I’ve said, and I’ve repudiated **gonzomax** for saying things vaguely similar to this. This is why you don’t deserve a debate, because you can’t even figure out what the other side is saying, much less figure out your own cites. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/89 "2009-11-30T23:15:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > God fuckin damn, you’re stupid. This is not remotely what I’ve said, and I’ve repudiated **gonzomax** for saying things vaguely similar to this. This is why you don’t deserve a debate, because you can’t even figure out what the other side is saying, much less figure out your own cites. [Uh huh](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11529491#post11529491). Yup, you’d _never_ [argue such a thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453117). ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/90 "2009-11-30T23:15:29Z")
All this “level playing field” bullshit confuses me. It IS a level playing field. Humans bring their intellect and ingenuity to the hunt in the form of domesticated hunting animals and firearms. Besides, wild boar tastes good, and they’re not endangered (and are non-native nuisances). I wonder if Cort, etc. are strict vegans, or if they eat any meat at all. If carnivorous, I’d just like to point out that you did not kill your hamburger with a small knife. I’ll leave you to follow your own logic to its conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/91 "2009-12-01T00:48:48Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > [Uh huh](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11529491#post11529491). Yup, you’d _never_ [argue such a thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453117). From the first post you cited: > [@me](#): > > No, breed is not a scientific concept. No, the AKC doesn’t recognize Pit Bull as a breed (which is kinda rendered irrelevant by the previous sentence). But dogfighters have spent centuries choosing the most dog-aggressive dogs to stud and whelp, breeding and inbreeding that particular psychosis onto the dogs. To suggest that their descendants are magically free of this psychosis is foolishness. > > If your dog is recently descended from dogs that were chosen for “game,” they’re likely to have “game” themselves, just like descendants of retrievers will retrieve, and descendants of guardians will guard. > > It’s true that in recent decades, fans of the pit’s appearance have been breeding them for non-psychotic traits. If your dog is recently descended from these, then maybe they have little enough of the game psychosis that they’ll be safe. From the second thread you cited: > [@me](#): > > Note that I don’t believe all pit bulls are as dangerous as dogs bred for “game.” Many breeders have been working on breeding the agression out of pits for years now, and I have no problem with such dogs. It’s just the poor bastards bred for the psychotic qualities of “game” that I don’t believe should be released to the general public ever. As I said, god fuckin damn you’re stupid. I’ve specifically repudiated the idea that across the board > [@](#): > > “pit bulls” carry some genetic “psychosis” that drives them to murderize and I’ve absolutely never ever said that the hot pit bulls are worse than any other dog. These are products of your own gangrenous zealot imagination. [edit: size tags added for the terminally stupid] ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/92 "2009-12-01T01:26:06Z")
[Yepperoo](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9417057&postcount=21), You certainly [never did](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9426003&postcount=53) [assert](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11674309&postcount=139) that the [hot pit bulls are worse than any other dog](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9436819&postcount=77) when it comes to fatally attacking children. No, siree, you [definitely would not have said such a thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11678337&postcount=212) after being [directly called on it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11677640&postcount=207), and definitely not after having admitted you have no factual basis for such an allegation, [two fucking years ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9422281&postcount=39). Then again, maybe you just neglected to read the entire ensuing discussion to the quotes you just posted, wherein that assertion was [repudiated](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11675915&postcount=152), [repeatedly](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11679734&postcount=216). Also, two ensuing discussions on the same topic, wherein you continued to assert the same illogical commentary? Despite bailing out on all three prior discussions on the same topic, when pressed for factual support and after having been called on citing a [shyster dog bite attorney as “evidence”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11678467&postcount=213)? …Or maybe you’re just terminally stupid, and have since forgotten all your prior drivel-spewing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/93 "2009-12-01T01:42:52Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > [Yepperoo](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9417057&postcount=21), You certainly [never did](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9426003&postcount=53) [assert](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11674309&postcount=139) that the [hot pit bulls are worse than any other dog](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9436819&postcount=77) when it comes to fatally attacking children. 1. No, you moron, I didn’t say that. Follow the post you linked to: here’s what I actually said, with the size-tags-for-the-terminally-stupid: > [@me](#): > > that pits are disproportionately dangerous toward children when compared to many other breeds. I suspect that other dogs whose breeding has (note that phrasing, distinguishing from “breeds who have”) the purpose of causing them to attack small animals would also be disproportionately dangerous toward children of an approximately equal size. 1. At any rate, that’s totally different from what you first claimed I said, which was that “pit bulls carry some genetic psychosis that drives them to murderize like no other dog that exists.” Those playing along at home can see why I think **Naja** is completely incapable of grasping any nuance in an argument. Read my words, then read what she thinks they say, and you’ll see why I think any debate with her is futile. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/94 "2009-12-01T01:44:53Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > Ground-hunting wild boar is a deadly serious activity, no joke, and is a matter of life, limb, and survival for many: dogs, hunters, farmers, crop-consumers, and native indigenous species alike. What I’d like to know then is if hogs are more dangerous than pits. We have annual stats on pit bull induced homocide, but can you provide some stats on hog induced homocides. After all you are in the know, being a director on the board and all. And **Bricker** go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/95 "2009-12-01T01:47:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree. Inasmuch as **NajaNivea** is arguing from a position of citation to appropriate authority to support factual claims and the opposition is relying upon nebulous ad hominem attacks, appeals to emotion, and unsupported gratuitous assertions about morality, as an observer with (forgive the phrase) no dog in this hunt, I find **NajaNivea** makes the best case. For the full effect, follow this ugly episode back to ATMB. That’s where there was actual debate with her; most of us figured out there that she was a fucking idiot who was completely incapable of understanding either her own cites or the posts of other people in the thread. I know I gave up with debating her after doing my best there and encountering in response the most ridiculous misreading of cites I’ve yet seen. AFAICT, only **cannydan** is still trying to debate her with any rigor, and look at her responses to him. ETA: Yes, my assertions about morality are gratuitous. SO fuckin’ what? This isn’t GD, and I didn’t make any such assertions there. If my behavior is inappropriate for your courtroom, with all due respect, fuck your courtroom. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/96 "2009-12-01T01:48:50Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > What I’d like to know then is if hogs are more dangerous than pits. We have annual stats on pit bull induced homocide, but can you provide some stats on hog induced homocides. After all you are in the know, being a director on the board and all. > > And **Bricker** go fuck yourself. People spend far more time around dogs than they do around hogs. Much like there are far more bathtub related deaths than there are nuclear bomb related deaths in a year. That doesn’t mean that bathtubs are less dangerous than nuclear bombs, clearly they’re not, it just means that bathtubs get used a hell of a lot more often. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/97 "2009-12-01T01:50:49Z")
Right, the good ol’ “[psychosis](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11529491&postcount=17)” bit, which I’m just pulling out of my ass, and you never said. Nice big font you posted. I’m sure we [never](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9432454&postcount=67) [discussed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9433975&postcount=71) [the flaws](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9437043&postcount=79) in your [nuanced argument](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9434495&postcount=73) then, either. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/98 "2009-12-01T01:53:37Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > Right, the good ol’ “[psychosis](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11529491&postcount=17)” bit, which I’m just pulling out of my ass, and you never said. > Nice big font you posted. I’m sure we [never](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9432454&postcount=67) [discussed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9433975&postcount=71) [the flaws](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9437043&postcount=79) in your [nuanced argument](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9434495&postcount=73) then, either. And notice this continued bullshit. Here at least you’re using few words–but you’re linking to a bajillion posts as though quantity is a fair substitute for quality. No, moron, it’s not. If you just say, “Fine, you’re right, you never said the things I accused you of saying, mea culpa,” then I’ll move on to your latest idiotic charge. But I’m not going to keep refuting every bullshit pissant idiot charge you throw at me without your at least acknowledging (or substantively refuting) the refutations. **Bricker** , what you’re seeing from her now is exactly what we dealt with in ATMB, and it’s why she’s getting very little serious argument in her GD thread. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/99 "2009-12-01T01:55:20Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > What I’d like to know then is if hogs are more dangerous than pits. We have annual stats on pit bull induced homocide, but can you provide some stats on hog induced homocides. After all you are in the know, being a director on the board and all. > > And **Bricker** go fuck yourself. You’re shitting me, right? _That’s_ the best you can come up with? ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277/100 "2009-12-01T01:59:57Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “Fine, you’re right, you never said the things I accused you of saying, mea culpa,” Honey, I\* can’t\* say that, because _you said it a bajillion times_… as is evidenced by the _bajillion fucking posts_ under your own screenname, asserting it. I don’t see much reason to go through all the refutations as I did before, the arguments are still there for the world to see, and still remain unanswered by you, at least three times. Go on ahead, click the links. It won’t hurt, we all know what they say. You can read them for yourself and remind yourself what happened those times, too. You know, the worst part about all this is that someone, some teacher’s licensing board somewhere put _you_ in charge of molding young minds. For someone who can’t remember their own arguments over the span of the last couple months, I’m really not sure how you manage to function without full-time assistance. God help the thinkers in your care. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/najanivea-michael-vick-boar-hunting-pitbulls/519277.md?page=6)