# Namdaemun destroyed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 10, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057 "2008-02-10T19:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/1 "2008-02-10T19:20:52Z")
[Namdaemun in Seoul was destroyed last night, arson suspected.](http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2008/02/123_18668.html) [Scroll down for the video.](http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/02/11/2008021100141.html) [Photo.](http://news.joins.com/component/htmlphoto_mmdata/200802/htm_2008021102154130003010-001.JPG) [Another photo.](http://news.joins.com/component/htmlphoto_mmdata/200802/htm_2008021102154130003010-002.JPG) [Yet another photo.](http://news.joins.com/component/htmlphoto_mmdata/200802/htm_2008021102154130003010-003.JPG) You can ignore the comments in the remarks section of the article; those guys are trolls of that site. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/2 "2008-02-10T19:24:39Z")
For those who didn’t know what it looked like not on fire (including not-well-traveled me): [Photo](http://squarehe.com/images/0606/namdaemun.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/3 "2008-02-10T19:24:39Z")
Your first link says this : > [@](#): > > According to firefighters, Namdaemun did not seem to sustain major damage other than minor burning to the area underneath the roof. Yet you say “destroyed.” Am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/4 "2008-02-10T19:35:24Z")
According to [This](http://news.monstersandcritics.com/asiapacific/news/article_1390659.php/Fire_destroys_Seouls_historic_Sungnyemun_gate), it was pretty much destroyed. There may have been some initial confusion as it appears to have been 2 fires. The first put out fairly quickly with less damage, and then the second more destructive fire starting from embers a while later. [Cite for that.](http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Fire_at_Namdaemun,_Arson_suspected) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/5 "2008-02-10T19:38:25Z")
Not to be crass or anything, but I have to say that I could wish that there wasn’t as much smoke and steam coming off of it in that video. It probably would have looked really cool to see it with huge flames. Poignant. (I mean, there’s not anything I can do about it being destroyed, after all…) You might pick up Yukio Mishima’s **The Golden Pavillion**. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/6 "2008-02-11T03:00:41Z")
I’m bumping this once 'cause it bums me out… it was a really pretty gate. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/7 "2008-02-11T03:38:47Z")
What the hell?! I can’t believe I missed this. I’ve been reading the Korean news sites, and apparently it has been pretty much destroyed. Good grief. Why the hell would anyone want to burn it down? That really sucks. It was a beautiful historical artifact. I hope they catch the bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/8 "2008-02-11T15:41:45Z")
[Police Yet to Find Cause of Fire](http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/02/117_18704.html) > [@](#): > > “I think a more accurate report can be only made after a close joint investigation,” Kim Young-soo, chief of Namdaemun Police Station, said in a press conference. “We are now investigating the possibility of arson, a short circuit or accidental origins.” > > Initially, arson appeared to be the cause of the fire after a taxi driver reported that he saw a man in his 50s go up the stairs to the gate shortly before the blaze started. > > But Kim said the taxi driver’s report differed from those of two other eyewitnesses in crucial factors, resulting in the police being unable to conclude that the fire was set by the man the taxi driver described. [Poor Security Blamed for Gate Burnout](http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/02/117_18720.html) > [@](#): > > KT Telecop, a security services unit of KT Corp., has been in charge of security of the gate since late January. The security firm failed to spot the fire immediately and its security officials were on the scene later than firefighters. > > As to the start of the fire, night lighting equipment had the possibility of short circuiting, while arson was feared as people could easily access the gate. > > Three workers from the ward office guarded Namdaemun on weekdays between 10 a.m. and 8 p.m. when the arched gate at the center of the structure was open, and one worker on weekends. > > During nighttime, however, the cultural asset was guarded by an unmanned security system of the security firm. Some pointed out that the blaze could have been brought under control at the start of the fire if a night duty worker had been stationed there. > > “Three workers are posted there during the daytime, but their main job is opening and closing the gate, providing information to tourists and checking the condition of the structure. We had only an unmanned security system at night, so it was difficult to take immediate measures against fire or other damage occurring at nighttime,” a Seoul City official said. > > He said a state managed system should have been prepared ― for example, the government directly managing cultural properties or providing an adequate budget to local authorities in charge of management. > > After the fire at Naksan Temple in Gangwon Province in April 2005, which destroyed a bronze bell, Treasure No. 479, the administration has promoted a disaster prevention project at major wooden cultural heritages, setting up fire-fighting equipment at four temples so far. Sungnyemun was included in the project, but had not been equipped with such systems. > > The official also said that the law on cultural property protection focuses only on “preserving the assets in their original forms,” and thus restricts installing fire-fighting equipment. > > “To keep the cultural properties’ _[sic]_ in their original forms, the law allows only simple fire-fighting equipment such as fire extinguishers. Installing equipment using electricity, such as fire alarms, is restricted to prevent possible damage to them,” an official of the National Emergency Management Agency said. [Three Years Needed for Restoration](http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/02/117_18722.html) > [@](#): > > It will take two to three years for the gutted Sungnyemun, or better known as Namdaemun (Southern Gate), to be restored to its original form, officials at the Cultural Heritage Administration said Monday. > > The restoration of the gate to its original form will cost about 20 billion won, said Kim Sang-gu, a senior official of the administration. Curent exchange rate gives that cost as US$21,139,826.936. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/9 "2008-02-11T17:11:43Z")
I was very sad when I heard about this yesterday. I love these old buildings. This is National Treasure No. 1! I hate to say it, but this tragedy is an embarrassment to Korea. It’s time they start thinking about installing automatic sprinkler systems in these old wooden structures. A little bit of modern intrusion is a worthy price to pay to preserve these classics. I know they’re more restorations than originals, but something is lost whenever they have to be rebuilt. ---
**Author:** ![Helena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@Helena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/10 "2008-02-12T02:33:52Z")
So, so sad. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/11 "2008-02-12T02:41:47Z")
I’ll bet a North Korean Saboteur/Sapper did it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/12 "2008-02-12T02:43:35Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] I was very sad when I heard about this yesterday. I love these old buildings. This is National Treasure No. 1! I hate to say it, but this tragedy is an embarrassment to Korea. It’s time they start thinking about installing automatic sprinkler systems in these old wooden structures. A little bit of modern intrusion is a worthy price to pay to preserve these classics. I know they’re more restorations than originals, but something is lost whenever they have to be rebuilt. [/QUOTE] The way the law regarding national treasures was written it prohibits installing automatic sprinkler systems in the structure. Of course, a viable alternative very well may be to have a standing hydrant and hose nearby. There are a lot of issues flying in the news reports and commentaries right now and it’s only Tuesday morning here. The fire was Sunday night. And it certainly wasn’t a North Korean saboteur. [Latest news this morning was about a 70-year old South Korean man confessing to the act.](http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/02/117_18745.html) > [@](#): > > Police said Chae was apprehended on Ganghwa Island, west of Seoul, on Monday on suspicions of setting a fire that crumbled down Namdaemun (South Gate), a 600-year-old gate in the capital, on Sunday night. > > He was confirmed to be the arsonist who set ablaze a part of a former royal palace, Changgyeong, in central Seoul in April 2006 and caused some 4 million won in damage. > > Police said that he seemed to commit similar crime again in anger against the alleged wrong handling of the compensation for his land confiscated for housing construction, which he had claimed when arrested for the arson of the Changgyeong Palace in 2006. > > A letter taken from Chae Monday has held the content to the effect that he set a fire to attract social attention on unsettled compensation for his land in Ilsan, a new town in northwestern Gyeonggi Province, the police said. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/13 "2008-02-12T02:55:19Z")
Some of my friends have mentioned the theory that the government is looking for a scapegoat to cover up their incompetence. :: shrug :: Dunno how plausible that is. Either way, I still think it’s an embarassment if a 70-year-old man was able to get close enough to set the gate on fire. I read somewhere it was only insured for about 20,000 USD. :rolleyes: 20 grand? For a national treasure? You have got to be kidding me. The arsonist is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, is he? Any kind of attention he gets from his is going to be far from sympathetic. A North Korean wouldn’t burn down Namdaemun. They’d probably bomb a government building instead. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/14 "2008-02-12T03:21:35Z")
100% implausible. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/15 "2008-02-12T03:31:52Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] 100% implausible. [/QUOTE] I don’t buy it either, but why do you sound so sure? ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/16 "2008-02-12T03:36:29Z")
Never mind. I just read the Yonhap and Hankyoreh news articles and it seems pretty evident that the disgruntled arsonist is responsible. What a douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/17 "2008-02-12T03:57:28Z")
Even before reading about the arrest, I was 100% sure none of the conspiracy theories is true. There’s just no reason for either the North Korean or South Korean government to create the incident or to frame someone for the crime. The police force here, although not the best in the world, is not the Keystone Cops many people like to accuse them of being. They really do follow the trail of evidence. The political crud surfaces after the cases are turned over to the prosecutor’s office. Regarding incompetence: Think about where the thing is located and what kind of traffic is in the vicinity. It’s in the middle of a major thoroughfare just a couple of blocks away from Seoul Station. There are people going buy it, at high speed, in vehicles all the time. Obviously, many more people go by during rush hour but I can’t say as I have ever seen the road empty except years ago during the era of nightly curfews. The police, and later the contracted security company, assess risk and respond accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/18 "2008-02-12T04:17:53Z")
Oh, the conspiracy theories weren’t about the government purposefully setting the fires; the theory I heard was that the fire was actually an accident caused by negligence, and that the government was looking to point the finger elsewhere. Which I could believe if the circumstances were different. I know nothing about what security measures were or weren’t taken - and the thing was in a very public place - so I suppose there’s little they could have done to prevent the initial arson. Still, from what the articles say it seems like they messed up in the process of putting it out. Who knows? No use pointing fingers now, I suppose. Maybe we should blame our ancestors for building everything out of wood instead of stone. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/19 "2008-02-12T04:50:13Z")
You should be here now, then. In the space of a day and a half, I’ve heard quite a number of amazing CTs. The most ignorant, of course, is that “it was obviously done by an American Soldier.” ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057/20 "2008-02-12T05:21:52Z")
Really, Monty? You really can’t think of any reasons why the North Korean Government would create this incident, and you really can’t see why the South Koreans would have reason to supress this? Highly motivated, idealogue, Cult of Personality types are one reason. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/namdaemun-destroyed/437057.md?page=2)