# Name a competitive activity humans engage in but never cheat at **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 19, 2019, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295 "2019-07-19T08:05:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/21 "2019-07-19T14:16:22Z")
But competitive staying-alive means trying to live longer than someone else. And maybe there are no rules against extending your own lifespan, but there generally are rules against shortening someone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/22 "2019-07-19T14:22:36Z")
NASCAR people say if you are not cheating, you are not winning. Cheating was big in NASCAR , it still exists but it is a lot harder now. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/23 "2019-07-19T15:23:46Z")
I’m trying to think of how someone could cheat at target shooting or trap shooting. Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/24 "2019-07-19T15:46:08Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m trying to think of how someone could cheat at target shooting or trap shooting. Any ideas? In shooting, reduced anxiety, low blood pressure and a slow heart rate are advantages. Some shooters have tried doping with beta blockers and the like. Noth Korean athlete [Kim Jong-su](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-su#Propranolol_doping) was stripped of two medals at the 2008 Olympics for doping with propranolol. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/25 "2019-07-19T16:05:07Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > I’m trying to think of a contest where cheating is impossible. Sorta like… when I was a kid, and my brother and I both wanted the last piece of meat/cake/whatever at dinner, my parents would decree that one of us would divide the remaining portion, but the other would pick first. at his was a simple and effective way to prevent disputes. So, is there a game that works on the same principle, where if you try to cheat you only give an advantage to your opponent? > [@Isamu](#): > > OK. So, no, there isn’t one. I can’t remember a specific one, but I’m pretty sure there a board games that have similar mechanics. Of course, it’s not really cheating on the part of the first player to “stack the desk” if that’s part of the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/26 "2019-07-19T16:09:23Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > > [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > > > I’m trying to think of a contest where cheating is impossible. Sorta like… when I was a kid, and my brother and I both wanted the last piece of meat/cake/whatever at dinner, my parents would decree that one of us would divide the remaining portion, but the other would pick first. at his was a simple and effective way to prevent disputes. So, is there a game that works on the same principle, where if you try to cheat you only give an advantage to your opponent? > > That’s not a game, it’s a system. Oh, it’s a game. Imagine a piece of cake with frosting. Me and my sister have to divide it. I hate frosting and my sister loves it. Ideally for me, I’d cut the cake so that she gets all the frosting and I get all the cake. But she doesn’t want just frosting, she needs some cake to give each bite texture. So the game is how much cake do I need to give her for her to take the frosted part instead of screwing us both? Is it possible to cheat in this game? It depends on the details of the rules. Can I disguise the division so that my sister doesn’t correctly value each part? Can I play head games with her so that she changes her valuation of each part? Can I do I switcheroo between the parts? ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/27 "2019-07-19T16:17:56Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > OK. So, no, there isn’t one. The knife-throwing game of Territory is actually a little like what **Defensive Indifference** described. You have a rectangle marked out on the dirt. One player divides it in two by cutting a line in the middle with the knife (this is assuming you have two players; you can play with more than two but that just makes this discussion more complicated). The other player chooses which territory he or she would like, presumably the one s/he thinks is bigger. Then you take turns standing in your own territory and throwing the knife into the other player’s territory. If it sticks you then continue the cut at the angle of the knife to split that territory into two parts. The “victim” chooses which part to keep; the thrower annexes the rest. Keep going until someone no longer can stand in his/her remaining territory to throw the knife. In the dividing-the-territory part of the game it is possible to cheat by cutting the line at the wrong angle. It is also possible to cheat in other ways. Don’t ask me how I know. (Yes, if you get good at knife-throwing the game becomes kind of pointless as you keep carving out and then losing equal-sized chunks of territory. My friends and I never got that good, though…) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/28 "2019-07-19T16:46:33Z")
I posted in the original thread that I don’t think it’s possible to cheat at tic-tac-toe. It’s also a game that should end in a draw if both sides have any experience at all in the game and aren’t losing voluntarily. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/29 "2019-07-19T17:07:54Z")
I saw a kid cheat in tic-tac-toe just the other day. Their opponent got up to get a drink, and they swapped an X with an O on the board. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/30 "2019-07-19T17:42:39Z")
For target shooting of any sort, is the equipment regulated? Is it possible to get a higher-tech gun that’s more accurate than your opponent’s (but disguised as an allowed gun)? Even if not, there’s the possibility of sneaking in to where your opponent’s gun is stored, and subtly sabotaging their weapon (bending the sights, maybe). ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/31 "2019-07-19T17:42:49Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m trying to think of how someone could cheat at target shooting or trap shooting. Any ideas? You can cheat at trap or at a turkey shoot by using non standard shells with more pellets. It’s been done but hard to get away with it as the shells are supplied by the organizers. You can also cheat at turkey shoots by having a shotgun bored tighter then the diameter of a full choke. Usually policed by the shooters themselves who will call for a plug check. A plug of the legal diameter must be able to pass into the end of the barrel. So there have been shooters who commission very expensive barrels with the choke way down the barrel so the plug will not reach. Dennis ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/32 "2019-07-19T17:51:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For target shooting of any sort, is the equipment regulated? Is it possible to get a higher-tech gun that’s more accurate than your opponent’s (but disguised as an allowed gun)? > > Even if not, there’s the possibility of sneaking in to where your opponent’s gun is stored, and subtly sabotaging their weapon (bending the sights, maybe). Yes the guns are regulated but it would be easy to spot. About the only cheating I can think of is to use lower power cartridges for less recoil, fast followup shots. This is for events where power factors are specified. We once had a novice shooter who used a laser sight for practical shooting. We allowed them but no one used them. So several guys brought laser pointers and at the next match the shooter saw 3 or 4 red dots on each target… too funny. If you could get at a competitor’s ammo you could slip in a cartridge that was noticeably weak or strong. This would be very disconcerting to the shooter and put doubt in his mind as to how he loaded the ammo. Dennis ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/33 "2019-07-19T17:58:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For target shooting of any sort, is the equipment regulated? Is it possible to get a higher-tech gun that’s more accurate than your opponent’s (but disguised as an allowed gun)? For national level Garand matches where everyone uses an as-issued M1 Garand rifle you are not allowed any match grade parts. This is impossible to see unless the rifle is taken apart. And that is just what they do to the top finishers, you surrender your rifle to the armorers. My Garand came as I received it from the Army with a match grade operating rod and I had to switch it out to shoot at Camp Perry. Dennis ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/34 "2019-07-19T18:25:24Z")
I think it’s impossible to cheat at the SDMB’s Death Pool. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/35 "2019-07-19T18:34:55Z")
> [@Rebo](#): > > I think it’s impossible to cheat at the SDMB’s Death Pool. Of course it is. All you need is access to the post database to be able to stealthily edit your past picks. It’s not like anybody’s going to remember them a year down the line ; and even if they do who are the organizers going to believe : the guy swearing up and down no you fucking did NOT have Abe Vigoda, or their own lying eyes ? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/36 "2019-07-19T18:42:16Z")
There’s a difference between “difficult” and “impossible”. There’s also a difference between “difficult to cheat” and “difficult to get away with cheating”. If someone actually did bring a match-grade rifle to a Garand meet, and the other competitors said “Hey, he’s cheating!”, would his response be “No, cheating’s not possible”? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/37 "2019-07-19T19:06:16Z")
The film Highway 61 has a scene in which Satan wins all the prizes at a church bingo night, and a lady sulkily mutters that he cheated. > [@Satan](#): > > Lady, you can’t cheat at bingo. If you could, I would, but you can’t. I won because I was lucky - lucky to wind up in a town full of losers. He drops the macrame plant holder he won in the garbage and walks out of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/38 "2019-07-19T19:12:19Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > I saw a kid cheat in tic-tac-toe just the other day. Their opponent got up to get a drink, and they swapped an X with an O on the board. How do you “swap” an X and an O? If they’re not writing it on paper it’s not a real game. And that trick won’t work if you’re paying any kind of attention at all. This pretty much falls under the “letting your opponent win” disclaimer I gave before. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/39 "2019-07-19T19:26:42Z")
They were playing with a plastic tic-tac-toe set. With pen and paper you could maybe overwrite a mark, or swap in a different paper or something like that. Or, I suppose you could use a solver on your phone to tell you the best moves to make. It would be the same type of cheating as the chess story. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295/40 "2019-07-19T19:35:50Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I posted in the original thread that I don’t think it’s possible to cheat at tic-tac-toe. It’s also a game that should end in a draw if both sides have any experience at all in the game and aren’t losing voluntarily. Tic-tac-toe is a zero-sum game - that means that if both sides play optimally it will always end in a draw. In that situation, I don’t see how we can reasonably call it a ‘competitive activity’ per the OP. It’s a flowchart with a foregone conclusion. If the odds of winning and losing are both 0%, you aren’t competing at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-competitive-activity-humans-engage-in-but-never-cheat-at/837295.md?page=3)