# Name a word that doesn't mean what most people think it means **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 9, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523 "2009-01-09T14:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/141 "2009-01-12T00:19:08Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Nobody says that. The distinction between “bring” and “take” doesn’t just indicate direction relative to _the speaker_; it indicates direction relative to _the point of interest you are trying to indicate._ You bring _to_, you take _from_ - whatever point of interest. In this case, you are bringing flowers to Grandma; the interest is the flowers’ direction relative to Grandma, not to you, since the flowers are for her. Yes, **matt\_mcl** , you explain it better than I did. **lissener** seems to recognize only spatial [deixis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deixis), ignoring the other uses of deixis: temporal, discourse, person, social and affective (this wiki article fails to note affective). Take, for example, _this_ and _that_. With spatial deixis, **this** is something closer, and _that_ something relatively farther away. But we also chose which one to use depending upon how we feel about someone. If you’re talking on the phone about a person you don’t like, who is not present, most people will say, “I don’t like **that** man,” choosing _that_ over _this_ to express negative feeling (affect). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/142 "2009-01-12T00:29:15Z")
> [@sjc](#): > > ::clap clap clap:: _Thank you!_ That expressed very well my problem with **lissener** ’s post. (I.e. why I felt he was missing the point.) > > Someone mentioned “ambivalent” up-thread and I want to say that I too dislike seeing or hearing it used as a direct synonym for not caring about the subject. However, I feel I must disagree slightly with them when they said that a person who is ambivalent cares very much about the subject. I’ve always thought of ambivalent as meaning “of two minds, having conflicting emotions about something”. In other words, while a person who is ambivalent may very well care strongly about something, they may just have weak emotions in conflict. I may be mistaken about this, but I think not. You’re absolutely correct. From the Latin : valens = strength or merit, and ambi- = two or both (as in ambidextrous : two right hands). Literally : both (ideas) have the same merit (to me). Doesn’t mean the merit has to be high, nor low. ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/143 "2009-01-12T02:06:17Z")
It displeases me that penultimate and decimate are so often misunderstood. They are exacting definitions which could frequently describe specific, interesting situations, but when so many people misinterpret them, it’s actually safer not to use them. Also, I’m irritated at the fact that acronyms (as well as initialisms) are not standardized. There’s a current thread regarding Chris Hansen / Perverted Justice wherein people keep referring to LEOs (_i.e.,_ Low Earth Orbits) as if they were law enforcment officers or something. Same with the INS. Why and how did Inertial Navigation Systems get pulled into “Homeland Security”? This slows my reading, as I frequently have to figure out which usage they intended. Regarding the word “random,” in college, my nerdly cohorts and I used it all the time as slang to describe situations and actions that were, well, random. Then I got out into the real world and stopped hearing people use the term. In some sort of reality TV show a few years ago, Rachel Hunter (the former model) described a situation as being “just so random,” and it made me feel happy inside, because it conclusively proved that all supermodels are secretly nerds. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/144 "2009-01-12T03:39:22Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > So what you’re saying is, although you can tell Grandma, “We brought you some flowers,” you can’t have previously said, “Let’s bring Grandma some flowers”? > > Would that mean that if you are a teacher, and you tell a child, “Stop playing with that or I’ll take it from you,” if you then go to the principal with it, you must then say, “I \*brought \*this from Billy,” since it’s now with you in a different place than where it was? > > Nobody says that. The distinction between “bring” and “take” doesn’t just indicate direction relative to _the speaker_; it indicates direction relative to _the point of interest you are trying to indicate._ You bring _to_, you take _from_ - whatever point of interest. In this case, you are bringing flowers to Grandma; the interest is the flowers’ direction relative to Grandma, not to you, since the flowers are for her. I’d like a cite; on the face of it I disagree with you, unless you have corroborating evidence. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/145 "2009-01-12T04:17:58Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I’d like a cite; on the face of it I disagree with you, unless you have corroborating evidence. Thanks. Not that this is conclusive beyond further discussion, but googling “grammar take bring,” the first 5 references were, 5 for 5, in agreement with me, not matt. Again, I recognize that this is more anecdotal than anything else, but I’d like to see a cite to the contrary. Thanks. (ETA: checking further, 10 out of the first 10 google links agree with me.) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/146 "2009-01-12T04:48:47Z")
**RickJay** quoted the American Heritage Dictionary above. But seriously, are you really arguing that one should say “I brought this from Jimmy” when one means “I took this from Jimmy,” simply because the confiscated object is now in the same location as the speaker? That’s “outright barbarous,” in Orwell’s sense. I had a fast look at some of the search results you mention. Several of them do not address the subject in enough detail to deal with the questions I raised. [Grammargirl](http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/bring-versus-take.aspx) refers to your interpretation as “the quick and dirty rule” and discusses the existence of what she refers to as “exceptions,” which I would just argue are the use of other forms of deixis according to the same underlying rule. The point is, the difference between “bring” and “take” are indeed deictic, but you can use deixis with respect to something other than the speaker. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/147 "2009-01-12T05:33:58Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > **RickJay** quoted the American Heritage Dictionary above. > > But seriously, are you really arguing that one should say “I brought this from Jimmy” when one means “I took this from Jimmy,” simply because the confiscated object is now in the same location as the speaker? That’s “outright barbarous,” in Orwell’s sense. Um, no, that’s a different usage. ETA: and re:Grammar Girl, she acknowledges there are usage exceptions. I’m not sure how you can interpret what I said as denying the possibility of isolated exceptions. Nonetheless, she agrees with my usage as primarily correct. Again, I’d like to see a cite to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/148 "2009-01-12T13:45:45Z")
Forte pronounced “for-tay” does not mean skill. It means “softly.” Her _forte_ is playing the piano _for-tay_. ---
**Author:** ![QuercusMax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/8baadc/32.png) [@QuercusMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuercusMax)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/149 "2009-01-12T13:56:13Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Forte pronounced “for-tay” does not mean skill. It means “softly.” > > Her _forte_ is playing the piano _for-tay_. Unless this is a whoosh, I’m pretty sure that _forte_ (usually abbreviated to just ‘_f_’) in music means LOUD. _piano_ means soft. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/150 "2009-01-12T14:11:10Z")
uGH:smack: Coffee first, then posting. ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/151 "2009-01-12T14:27:08Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Forte pronounced “for-tay” does not mean skill. It means “softly.” > > Her _forte_ is playing the piano _for-tay_. The piano/forte distinction aside, the use of “forte” to describe a strength or aptitude appears to have two acceptable pronounciations, including “fawr-TEY”. (or so says [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forte)) ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/152 "2009-01-12T14:46:36Z")
> [@MissGypsy](#): > > I’m surrounded by people who use “ignorant” as a synonym for “rude.” I’m amazed my head hasn’t exploded, because every time I hear it, I want to smack someone on the head with a dictionary. Ignorant/ignant in that context isn’t being used to mean lacking in knowledge or training, it’s slang for not knowing how to act/acting stupid. I guess I wouldn’t call it people not knowing what ignorant means, but using it as slang (see: cool, sick, groovy). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/153 "2009-01-12T16:40:14Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Again, I’d like to see a cite to the contrary. The American Heritage Dictionary isn’t a cite? Here’s another good explanation: [http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/bring.html](http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/bring.html) Lawler sums it up very nicely here: > [@](#): > > For instance, in a situation where someone has knocked on your door and you shout reassurance to them to let them know you’re on your way to the door from somewhere else, what you say in Spanish is Voy (‘I’m going’), because you’re moving away from where you’re at. In English what you say is I’m coming, because you’re moving toward the place your addressee is at;\*\* in English you can take either the speaker’s or the addressee’s position as the terminus ad quem for come, as well as the terminus a quo for go. \*\* > > It’s easy to see that bring and take have these stigmata, too. > > I’ll bring it right back. (to you) > I’ll take it away. (from you) > Take this away. (from me) > Bring the car. (to me) Have you never said “I’ll bring it back”? ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/154 "2009-01-12T18:38:02Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Decimate. After reading World War Z, I’ll never forget what that word really means. Armageddon. It’s a little thing, but I point out to people that it’s a place, not a time or an event. (I’ve been there.) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/155 "2009-01-12T22:35:17Z")
> [@ArrMatey](#): > > After reading World War Z, I’ll never forget what that word really means. > > Armageddon. It’s a little thing, but I point out to people that it’s a place, not a time or an event. (I’ve been there.) In the same vein, apocalypse. It means “revelation”, people. Either telling secrets or providing someone with arcane information he did not know before. Here on the Dope, we have apocalypses every day :). The word you’re looking for is eschaton. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/156 "2009-01-12T23:42:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > In the same vein, apocalypse. It means “revelation”, people. Either telling secrets or providing someone with arcane information he did not know before. Here on the Dope, we have apocalypses every day :). The word you’re looking for is eschaton. Well, my dictionary says “Apocalypse” also means “catastrophic destruction.” Looks like all the other dictionaries say that too. It’s been used that way since before we were born. I know it meant “revelation” in Greek, but we aren’t speaking Greek. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/157 "2009-01-12T23:45:12Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The American Heritage Dictionary isn’t a cite? Nor the Oxford English Dictionary? _bring_ Simple form (non-phrasal) Definition 1: "To cause to come along with oneself; to fetch. It includes ‘lead’ or ‘conduct’ (F. _amener_) as well as ‘carry’ (F. _apporter_); it implies motion towards the place where the speaker or auditor is, **or is supposed to be** , being in sense the causal of come; motion in the opposite direction is expressed by take (Fr. _emmener_, _emporter_). [Bolding mine] Note “or is supposed to be.” The “supposed to be” is the subjective projection of the speaker. Connotation b. “by leading, conducting, propelling, etc.” Example: “1885 H. O. FORBES Nat. Wand. III. viii. 258 At length a bend of the river brought me in sight of the European..quarter of the city.” ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/158 "2009-01-13T00:01:32Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > Presently. > > It doesn’t mean “now.” It means “soon.” As in “I will be serving dinner presently, so wash your damn hands.” Everybody thinks it means “now,” as in “Susie is presently captain of the cheerleading squad.” Without reading the rest of the thread to see if this has been addressed, “presently” has been more or less synonymous with “currently” since the 15th century, so it’s hard to see why you object to it. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/159 "2009-01-13T00:22:33Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Forte pronounced “for-tay” does not mean skill. It means “softly.” > > Her _forte_ is playing the piano _for-tay_. It doesn’t mean skill, but it does mean strength, or strong point. As you noted in your example, her strength is playing the piano loudly. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523/160 "2009-01-13T01:35:27Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I opened this thread to post about this very word. Not to complain that people misunderstand its meaning, but to admit that I _hate_ this word precisely because it doesn’t sound at all like something amusing or whimsical, but does sound _dull_ and boring. I recognize that it has its origins way back in the 17th century, but it’s one of those words that I’d love to vote to change the meaning of, to what it actually sounds like it _should_ mean. 😃 😛 Yes. I don’t hate it, but I always hear an undercurrant, as if in the background Snape were saying “how very droll, Potter.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-a-word-that-doesnt-mean-what-most-people-think-it-means/480523.md?page=9)