# Name an unjustly derided movie. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 13, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549 "2014-11-13T18:22:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/201 "2014-11-18T18:35:18Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > That’s the charm: it is epitomal Hollywood fluff, but it all works. There were probably hundreds of movies just like it, but there’s only one Casablanca. I’d go so far as to say they’re cliches _now_ **because of** _ **Casablanca** _. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/202 "2014-11-18T19:19:02Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Another movie that I thought was unfairly derided was 13th Warrior. Not the greatest film in the history of films but one of the better Poet-from-Bagdad-hooks-up-with-12-Norsemen-and-they-fight-cannibalistic-Neanderthals movies that I’ve seen. Yes! I caught it when it started playing on cable, way back when, and thought the build of suspense and horror was great. It feels like a horror film in the middle, but then turns into a warrior’s tale. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/203 "2014-11-20T03:19:32Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > And that’s the problem. You know what, I think I’ll write a screenplay: > > * * * > > A handsome young man and a beautiful young woman, both scions of families of power and wealth. The families are rivals and the young people become implacable enemies who spend their entire lives trying to destroy each other, but end up each becoming richer and more powerful than ever. It’ll be a brilliant satire on the current political situation with the Democrats and Republicans. > > ## I’ll call it Romeo and Juliet. That won’t piss anybody off, will it? > > When you name your work directly after a source, you assume an obligation to at least remain somewhat true to the actual source, not take a giant shit on it and call it art. Verhoeven is a pretentious prick and a fraud. It won’t piss anybody off. (Well, practically anybody.) The title is a known and established trope. And you can’t copyright titles for good reason. (You _can_ sort of trademark them.) I think this is a good idea, and not offensive at all. And I’m not even paying you royalties when I make it. 😛 > [@Alessan](#): > > I think the main beef Heinlein fans had with Verhoeven and company is that they felt they were mocking Heinlein. And there is nothing wrong with mocking Heinlein, unless you’re mocking him for something he wasn’t. But he was a lot of mockable stuff. > [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Another movie that I thought was unfairly derided was 13th Warrior. Not the greatest film in the history of films but one of the better Poet-from-Bagdad-hooks-up-with-12-Norsemen-and-they-fight-cannibalistic-Neanderthals movies that I’ve seen. Wow, I agree! Wait… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/204 "2014-11-20T05:24:55Z")
“Lo there do I see my father…” Great film. I actually saw it in the theater. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/205 "2014-11-20T14:19:07Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > The critics often don’t get it (Arnie in a comedy? Bruce Willis in a comedy?) . I don’t buy this as an excuse. Critics frequently embrace stars in different roles if the movie’s good. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s been in other comedies, too, and was in two successful comedies BEFORE “Last Action Hero” - “Twins” and “Kindergarten Cop,” both of which were quite well received. Half the English-speaking world knows the line “It’s not a toomah!” So nobody was unused to seeing Arnold in a comedy. “Last Action Hero” just isn’t a very good movie; the kid is staggeringly unlikeable and the movie isn’t especially well-crafted. I’d say it definitely has its moments, but the fact it’s a satire isn’t an excuse for its flaws, some of which are just fundamental filmmaking problems; it’s not well edited, for instance, which throws the timing of the jokes off. Similarly, I am struggling with the idea that people couldn’t buy Bruce Willis in a comedy when the man became famous because he was in comedic TV show. Indeed, Willis is a perfect test case because people were once skeptical of him headlining an ACTION movie, because he was largely known for being a funny guy. You might have heard of that action movie, little picture called “Die Hard.” The movie won people over to the idea of Willis as an action star because, of course, it is an absolutely fantastic movie. There’s no reason Willis could not have had success in a subsequent comedy if it had been good. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/206 "2015-01-09T20:57:31Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Just watched **Ishtar** based upon the recommendations in this thread (and because it was available on Netflix streaming) and y’all are right - it’s nowhere near as bad as its reputation. If it is among the 5-worst films of 1987 (as evidenced by it’s Razzie nomination for ‘worst picture’), then '87 must have been the strongest year in the history of movies, quality-wise. I watched Ishtar as well, based on this thread, and realized I had made a grave error about 10 seconds into the opening. What killed it for me was the bad music. I get that it’s a plot point that these guys are terrible, unlistenable musicians. Did they really need to subject me to what felt like at least 30 minutes of off key, low quality music? This isn’t the Blues Brothers, or even Spinal Tap, these guys stink on ice. Give me a 5-10 second snippet of bad music, then they go on break, or say “That was great!” to each other. Establishes their cred as bad musicians, but I don’t actually have to listen to them. Other than that, the plot was acceptable, reasonably humorous, nothing awful about it. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/207 "2015-01-09T23:22:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > “Lo there do I see my father…” > > Great film. I actually saw it in the theater. So did I. More than once. And countless times on video since. My son loves it too. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/208 "2015-01-10T01:28:16Z")
I don’t know if it’s derided so much as overlooked but I loved _[Mystery Men](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0132347/?ref_=nv_sr_1)_. Great cast, solid story, and amazing visuals (Kinka Usher’s direction reminded me of Terry Gilliam’s work). But it bombed in the box office and Usher has never directed another movie. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/209 "2015-01-10T03:30:46Z")
The second Matrix movie was the best of the trilogy. Yes, the orgy scene sucked, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/210 "2015-01-10T03:35:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t know if it’s derided so much as overlooked but I loved _[Mystery Men](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0132347/?ref_=nv_sr_1)_. Great cast, solid story, and amazing visuals (Kinka Usher’s direction reminded me of Terry Gilliam’s work). But it bombed in the box office and Usher has never directed another movie. I really like that movie. It’s one of the handful of Ben Stiller movies that I can watch without cringing. There are only two others: Walter Mitty and Tropic Thunder. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/211 "2015-01-10T03:37:17Z")
K-Pax. Got a 41 on the tomatometer but a 75 on the audience rating. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/212 "2015-01-10T03:51:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t know if it’s derided so much as overlooked but I loved _[Mystery Men](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0132347/?ref_=nv_sr_1)_. Great cast, solid story, and amazing visuals (Kinka Usher’s direction reminded me of Terry Gilliam’s work). But it bombed in the box office and Usher has never directed another movie. Terrific movie: smart, funny, well-cast, and looked great on a budget. A mine of quotes, too. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/213 "2015-01-10T04:24:32Z")
I thought “Valkyrie” was better than the 61% on Rotten Tomatoes. It’s pretty accurate, moves along well. I’ve read and seen other filmed presentations of the July 20th plot and this one explains well how it was supposed to work. I neither gag or go ga-ga about Tom Cruise. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/214 "2015-01-10T05:00:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t know if it’s derided so much as overlooked but I loved _[Mystery Men](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0132347/?ref_=nv_sr_1)_. Great cast, solid story, and amazing visuals (Kinka Usher’s direction reminded me of Terry Gilliam’s work). But it bombed in the box office and Usher has never directed another movie. I didn’t realize it bombed. I assumed lots of other people loved it as much as I did. It was great! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/215 "2015-01-10T05:04:13Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I do have to give Verhoeven credit for being the first person to accept his Razzie in person for _Showgirls_. The best one is still Sandra Bullock who won her Razzie (and received it in person) the day before winning her Oscar. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/216 "2015-01-10T05:09:16Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I didn’t realize it bombed. I assumed lots of other people loved it as much as I did. It was great! $68,000,000 budget and it only earned back $33,461,011. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/217 "2015-01-10T05:26:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There’s no reason Willis could not have had success in a subsequent comedy if it had been good. He did: _The Fifth Element_. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/218 "2015-01-10T05:44:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > $68,000,000 budget and it only earned back $33,461,011. Yet more evidence that there is no justice in the world. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/219 "2015-01-10T06:21:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > K-Pax. Got a 41 on the tomatometer but a 75 on the audience rating. I knew about the critics panning it, but not about the audience ratings. Good. I think it’s a great movie. ---
**Author:** ![chancetx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@chancetx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chancetx)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/220 "2015-01-10T07:05:13Z")
I never understand why the Matthew Broderick “Godzilla” is so hated. I’m not defending it as high art but for a summer popcorn flick I thought it delivered quite well. It was certainly much more entertaining than Spielberg’s “The Lost World” from the previous summer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549.md?page=12)