# Name an unjustly derided movie. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 13, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549 "2014-11-13T18:22:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/121 "2014-11-15T03:58:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It is rather noteworthy that the “Starship Troopers” reviews get a lot more positive, and start singing the “but it’s a satire!” tune, only long after the movie’s release. Look at the review dates if you don’t believe me. I believe you, but the people I saw it with got it immediately and were very happy with the result. I don’t know how much more obvious the satire could be. And I understand whoever was saying the satire was ham-fisted. It IS ham-fisted…and a lot of people still didn’t get it. Not people here of course (no sarcasm) ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/122 "2014-11-15T04:03:27Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Bwuh? > > Contagion made $75 million in the US. It was the #1 movie the week it was released and #45 for the year (out of 602 movies). Also, it is 84% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. But Contagion really doesn’t belong in this thread for a different reason: it was really fucking awful. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/123 "2014-11-15T04:18:30Z")
I guess it’s no surprise that M. Night has come up in this thread. I showed up to add my two cents: _The Village_. I love every second of that movie, passionately. I dunno why. I just do. It’s pretty. It’s pleasant. I like the leads. It’s weird. It’s exciting. Also, I am too stupid to figure out M. Night’s twists ahead of time. They always get me. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/124 "2014-11-15T04:46:34Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I believe you (I noticed the same thing myself), but I just have to ask, “How?” The satire is so obvious that it practically jumped off the screen and slapped you in the face. How could so many critics miss it? I don’t think they have to like it (though they should), but how did they miss it? Well, two things. 1. Look, the movie is boring. Adding the element of satire to something does not make it good; the story, plot, and characters still have to work, and in “Starship Troopers” they simply don’t. The entire movie is stupid, and you can’t save a stupid movie by inserting a message. It’s a long, exhausting, loud, dumb ass movie. Theme and message do not make up for a failure of story. That said, 1. Most people who write movie reviews are not movie critics. They are movie REVIEWERS. The job of Sally down at the Springfield Post-Dispatch-Gazette is largely to say whether the movie is good, bad, or indifferent, not to examine a movie in the context of the art of cinema. What Verhoeven and Edward Neuheimer were trying to do with the movie’s theme and message isn’t really what a movie reviewer cares about; they care about whether or not the movie sucks, and if it sucks, well, the analysis stops there. Now, if you look at Starship Troopers as a critic - it’s still boring and stupid. However, at least it’s interesting. Verhoeven was trying to do something, at least, and it’s interesting, at least in my opinion, to explain why I think he failed at it, and what he succeeded at, and how the movie might have worked better. That’s as opposed to, say, a movie that’s basically throwaway crap, like a Transformers movie or any number of utterly mindless romantic comedies. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/125 "2014-11-15T05:01:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > 1. Look, the movie is boring. Adding the element of satire to something does not make it good; the story, plot, and characters still have to work, and in “Starship Troopers” they simply don’t. The entire movie is stupid, and you can’t save a stupid movie by inserting a message. It’s a long, exhausting, loud, dumb ass movie. Theme and message do not make up for a failure of story. So I’ve only seen it once, in first release. I don’t remember it as boring. My memory of it is that I was disturbed by it, because it felts like a satire that halfway through forgot it was a satire. It was years later that I suspected Verhoeven hadn’t forgotten that it was a satire, but was trying to make fun of me by hitting my “popcorn action flick” buttons with a movie that glorified fascist behavior. I’m not sure I agree that the movie was a failure, but if it’s gonna be judged by its own standards (and if I’m right about those standards), the question is whether it put lots of people either in that uncomfortable position I was in, or else made them root for the protagonists so that Verhoeven could sneer at them. Of course, there’s no rule that anyone has to judge it by its standards, either. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/126 "2014-11-15T05:04:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It is rather noteworthy that the “Starship Troopers” reviews get a lot more positive, and start singing the “but it’s a satire!” tune, only long after the movie’s release. Look at the review dates if you don’t believe me. Yeah, it was a retcon of the metatext: It’s a reinterpretation, not of the story, but of the story surrounding the story, the narrative that the film was packaged with. The director probably didn’t intend it (_Showgirls_. I rest my case.) but you’d have to be even dumber than Verhoeven to _deny_ doing something that makes you look better to the Serious Critical Establishment. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/127 "2014-11-15T05:07:47Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > As usual the book was much better. And I think they could have followed it a bit more closely and made it a better movie. I’m no fanboy who things that movies should follow a book exactly. But sometimes it’s hard to see why certain things were changed. I didn’t even know that there was a book, and I thought that the movie was great. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/128 "2014-11-15T05:13:17Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Just watched **Ishtar** based upon the recommendations in this thread (and because it was available on Netflix streaming) and y’all are right - it’s nowhere near as bad as its reputation. If it is among the 5-worst films of 1987 (as evidenced by it’s Razzie nomination for ‘worst picture’), then '87 must have been the strongest year in the history of movies, quality-wise. I dunno…I tried to watch it, and couldn’t get past the first 30 minutes. I was also desperate for any kind of entertainment, so, I think that there was a problem with the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/129 "2014-11-15T05:28:24Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I didn’t even know that there was a book, and I thought that the movie was great. Written by David Brin. Probably his least complex novel (that I read). But there is nothing wrong with that. Complex novels are hard to make into 90 minute movies. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/130 "2014-11-15T05:53:14Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Yeah, it was a retcon of the metatext: It’s a reinterpretation, not of the story, but of the story surrounding the story, the narrative that the film was packaged with. The director probably didn’t intend it (_Showgirls_. I rest my case.) but you’d have to be even dumber than Verhoeven to _deny_ doing something that makes you look better to the Serious Critical Establishment. Whoa whoa whoa. Again, Doogie Howser…Space Nazi Scientist. Verhoeven absolutely knew what he was doing with the imagery and casting. …he said hoping that Verhoeven did actually cast all the relevant parts. And we haven’t even talked about how the ‘good guys’ thought it was going to be a walk in the park and got their asses handed to them. Sound familiar? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/131 "2014-11-15T06:21:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > 1. Look, the movie is boring. Adding the element of satire to something does not make it good; the story, plot, and characters still have to work, and in “Starship Troopers” they simply don’t. The entire movie is stupid, and you can’t save a stupid movie by inserting a message. It’s a long, exhausting, loud, dumb ass movie. Theme and message do not make up for a failure of story. We’ll have to disagree. I thought it was quite good. I thought the satire was funny and I thought all the action movie bits were a lot of fun. > [@Loach](#): > > Written by David Brin. Probably his least complex novel (that I read). But there is nothing wrong with that. Complex novels are hard to make into 90 minute movies. Or even if you get to make it into a movie that’s twice that length. One of the big problems with The Postman is that it goes on FOREVER. It’s a slog that requires an iron will to finish. Plus, it’s boring. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/132 "2014-11-15T08:04:06Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > And we haven’t even talked about how the ‘good guys’ thought it was going to be a walk in the park and got their asses handed to them. Sound familiar? Vietnam War. Nearly every war movie since the Vietnam War happened. Aliens 2, and it’s even a bug hunt. My point is, having a positive, heroic war movie would have been utterly bizarre by that point, so it’s a thin hook to hang your interpretation on. Oh, and an anti-science bias is so prevalent in Hollywood that that hook is even thinner. Scientists are either utterly incompetent space cases or morally ambiguous Von Braun types so often that _Showgirls_ Man was, again, pretty much just following the going trend. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/133 "2014-11-15T08:55:11Z")
I really don’t think Bubble Boy deserves the 29% rotten tomatoes has it at. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/134 "2014-11-15T11:21:10Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I dunno…I tried to watch it, and couldn’t get past the first 30 minutes. I was also desperate for any kind of entertainment, so, I think that there was a problem with the movie. It’s not a great movie, but it’s better than its reputation _circa_ 1987 would have one believe. My wife and I loved the scenes with the camel and now think there are a lot of movies that could be improved with the inclusion of a blind camel. 🙂 OTOH, _totally_ get the “Wait… they spent $40 million on _this_?” complaints. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/135 "2014-11-15T11:40:12Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > ROFL! No, it actually didn’t. It made ham-handed comments about propaganda in general that a lot of people projected onto modern politics. In Starship Troopers war is declared on an entirely bogus prextext - that some relatively unskilled bugs fired an astoroid from zillions of miles away at Earth, and hit. The bugs were so technologically inferior all they can do is squirt shit into space. It’s so stupid it might have been Colin Powell at the UN. Then we get the naive kids signing up to be heroes, the whole cheese-eating surrender monkey thing, the whole carpet bombing - sorry, ‘surgical strikes’ - campaign … it goes on and on predicting how an aggressor state goes about its work. Paul Verhoeven totally nailed the USA. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/136 "2014-11-15T12:01:30Z")
More on Starsip Troopers: > [@](#): > > Why are we even fighting the bugs? This is an issue brought up in a short scene by a reporter who questions whether the bugs would be attacking us at all if it weren’t for our own proclivity for violence. After interviewing some of the mobile infantry, the reporter tells the camera, “Some say the bugs were provoked by the intrusion of humans into their natural habitat, that a live and let live policy is preferable to war with the bugs.” He’s interrupted by John Rico who says, “Let me tell you something: I’m from Buenos Aires, and I say kill them all!” > [@](#): > > This lack of willingness to even consider the enemy’s perspective is repeated later in one of the newsreel clips. In an interview between a scientist and a talk show host, the interviewer refuses to even hear the perspective offered by the scientist. He continually talks over her, saying “Insects with intelligence? Have you ever met one? I can’t believe I am hearing this nonsense! This is the most ridiculous conversation I have ever had!” The host’s xenophobia outlines the first major aspect of the military ideology under critique in the film. Nice. [http://www.screeningnotes.com/2013/10/starship-troopers-analysis.html](http://www.screeningnotes.com/2013/10/starship-troopers-analysis.html) ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/137 "2014-11-15T14:17:28Z")
**Multiplicity** , a Harold Ramis comedy based on a great _National Lampoon_ story by Chris Miller. It mined a lot of the same territory as **Groundhog Day** , but Bill Murray refused to get involved with the picture and his role went instead to Michael Keaton. The role didn’t play to Keaton’s particular strengths, but it was still a really good film. Speaking of Ramis, he was getting a little desperate for a comeback and Murray still didn’t want to return his phone calls when Ramis did the remake of **Bedazzled**. Not sure whether Ramis wanted Murray for the main role or for the Devil role, but Brendan Fraser (never any director’s first choice, it seems) starred as Elliot and Elizabeth Hurley (sexy and funny, but not quite a movie star) was the Devil. It had its moments (I liked all the surtitles of all the minor character’s sins), but they remade a movie that was pretty flawless the first time out, never a great idea, and gave it an ending with less punch. ---
**Author:** ![Greekfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@Greekfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greekfreak)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/138 "2014-11-15T16:52:19Z")
**The Godfather Part III** I understand the flaws in the film; no Duvall, the casting of Sofia Coppola and George Hamilton, the affair with the Catholic Church, Pacino’s haircut making him look like a roadie for the Chili Peppers, and the Benny Hill-type death of Michael Corleone. Taken on it’s own, it’s mostly a boring film and re-treads too much of the first two films. But I still give it a solid 6. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/139 "2014-11-15T17:37:52Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > I really don’t think Bubble Boy deserves the 29% rotten tomatoes has it at. \*Have you ever been karmically bitch-slapped by a six-armed goddess? \* ---
**Author:** ![XanderCrews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ee59a6/32.png) [@XanderCrews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XanderCrews)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/140 "2014-11-15T18:17:20Z")
I agree with Speed Racer. Blu Ray was still newwhen it released, and it was visually stunning. A live action cartoon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549.md?page=8)