# Name an unjustly derided movie. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 13, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549 "2014-11-13T18:22:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/141 "2014-11-15T18:45:41Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > In Starship Troopers war is declared on an entirely bogus prextext - that some relatively unskilled bugs fired an astoroid from zillions of miles away at Earth, and hit. The bugs were so technologically inferior all they can do is squirt shit into space. Squirting poop into space is a hell of a feat. šŸ™‚ In any event, the film doesnā€™t really five any indication the bugs DIDNā€™T fire the asteroid. Itā€™s consistent with what we see on screen to believe it might have been a pretext, but really it doesnā€™t matter either way, since it is already rather strongly implied the humans may have started the war prior to Buenos Aires being destroyed. There is really no clear explanation as to when the war started or who started it, which is sadly pretty consistent with how a lot of wars start. One thing that always bothered me about the film, aside from it being boring, was using Michael Ironside to play two characters as one (heā€™s the teacher, and then suddenly heā€™s an officer.) In the book theyā€™re different characters, and at the time, as now, I was astonished at what a terrible decision it was to combine them, since 1. Itā€™s visually jarring. ā€œWait, he was a schoolteacher, now heā€™s Gunney Hartman, wtf?ā€ 2. The movieā€™s whole point would frankly be a lot stronger if the two roles were different characters; itā€™d reinforce the film;s message far more to have a TEACHER preaching violence and fascism but in a teachery way - imagine those lessons being taught in a less Michaelironsidish way by a woman who looks like a high school teacher. Thatā€™s how we teach civics to kids now; itā€™d be more more effective to have a teacher teaching that stuff, rather than a guy who turns out to be a badass soldier after all. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/142 "2014-11-15T20:32:49Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Signs. Itā€™s a great movie once you realize that itā€™s not a science fiction movie, itā€™s a fairy tale. _Eyes Wide Shut_. Same reasonā€“itā€™s a psychosexual dream, not ā€œreal story.ā€ Screenplay almost word for word from Arthur Schnitzler _Traumnovelle_, [Dream novella] Freud-era Vienna. Screenplay and novella are available in paperback single volume. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/143 "2014-11-16T00:37:24Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Whoa whoa whoa. Again, Doogie Howserā€¦Space Nazi Scientist. Verhoeven absolutely knew what he was doing with the imagery and casting. > > ā€¦he said hoping that Verhoeven did actually cast all the relevant parts. > > And we havenā€™t even talked about how the ā€˜good guysā€™ thought it was going to be a walk in the park and got their asses handed to them. Sound familiar? Aliens? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/144 "2014-11-16T00:58:30Z")
I donā€™t recall if itā€™s been mentioned above, but _Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow_ is a nostalgic hoot. Itā€™s a tribute to 1930s adventure pulps, and to things like the old Superman cartoons (the opening images of flying robots invading the city are pretty clearly inspired by the Superman cartoon " Mechanical Monsters") and to ā€œKing Kongā€ (the island at the end with its prehistoric beasts, not to mention the sunken ship ā€œVentureā€), all done with consideranle cinematic flair. And virtually all done in Digital Backlot. I loved it, Unfortunately, not enough other people did. ---
**Author:** ![ch51](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ch51/32/3111_2.png) [@ch51](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ch51)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/145 "2014-11-16T01:39:06Z")
Hudson Hawk for sure. Very funny! Action comedy ā€¦ not ā€¦ ā€œSerious Actionā€. Howard the Duck - saw it in the theatre. Laughed. My ticket costs the same whatever the budget. Never understood that type of complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/146 "2014-11-16T01:44:53Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Aliens? Really, shouldnā€™t the marines have won? Seems the worst offense was leaving the jump ship door open. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/147 "2014-11-16T01:52:07Z")
Do you all think people these days have unrealistic expectations of movies? I think if _Halloween_ or the 1978 version of _Invasion of the Body Snatchers_ were done, people would call it cold, and boring. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/148 "2014-11-16T03:29:53Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I donā€™t recall if itā€™s been mentioned above, but _Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow_ is a nostalgic hoot. I mostly loved it, but the female lead was so irritatingly written that it nearly ruined the movie for me. She should have been a hardbitten no-bullshit reporter; instead, she was an incompetent bimbo pretending to be a reporter. Everything else nailed the type, but she made me cringe every time she was on screen. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/149 "2014-11-16T03:51:16Z")
Since we went on a bit of a tangent regarding M. Night Shyamalan, Iā€™m curious if anyone liked _The Lady in the Water_. I happen to think it is perhaps the worst movie ever made. Many would agree, but Iā€™ve had (actor) friends try and tell me it was good. I guess I missed something. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/150 "2014-11-16T03:56:28Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I donā€™t recall if itā€™s been mentioned above, but _Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow_ is a nostalgic hoot. Itā€™s a tribute to 1930s adventure pulps, and to things like the old Superman cartoons (the opening images of flying robots invading the city are pretty clearly inspired by the Superman cartoon " > Mechanical Monsters") and to ā€œKing Kongā€ (the island at the end with its prehistoric beasts, not to mention the sunken ship ā€œVentureā€), all done with consideranle cinematic flair. And virtually all done in Digital Backlot. I loved it, Unfortunately, not enough other people did. Not terrible, but let down by weak casting: Gwyneth Paltrow shouldnā€™t be allowed to be in anything except flabby romcoms, and Jude Law is too reptilian to be the dashing pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/151 "2014-11-16T04:01:38Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Well, maybe thatā€™s the wrong term to use, yeah. But itā€™s still the whole ā€œwhite guy learns the exotic ways of the Nipponese, becomes a better exemplar of samurai values and virtues than actual samuraiā€. > > I can never not roll my eyes at the point where Cruise manages to draw the gruff bushi who has it in for him - the guy has been living by and perfecting that one form of swordsmanship his entire fricking life but hey, nothing a white guy canā€™t pick up and top over a single winter :rolleyes:. > > And then he goes on to tell the fucking Emperor of fucking Japan what it \*really \*means to be samuraiā€¦ I mean, come the fuck on, right ? TV Tropes calls it the [Mighty Whitey:](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MightyWhitey) white hero rocks up to a non-white traditional people, and is just naturally better at being them than they are. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/152 "2014-11-16T04:07:26Z")
Wrt _Starship Troopers_: The scene where the protagonist shoots a hole into the bug and throws a grenade inside is one the best action scenes ever. Also, the alien swarm when they try and build that base on their planet. Both really amazing fight scenes. I would question anyone who could describe them as ā€œboring.ā€ I think the political element was interesting, but I felt it could have been explored much deeper. I think there was a genuine masterpiece somewhere in that film, but the director made it far too cartoonish and low-brow to achieve its full potential. From what Iā€™ve heard, the book was brilliant and the movie just dumbed things down. What a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/153 "2014-11-16T06:24:21Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > And you think Waterworld is a shitty movie? Ha. Thanks for the laugh. Dad,youā€™re drunk, Go home. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/154 "2014-11-16T06:52:09Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > \ > As for another example, I think _What Dreams May Come_ is a fine movie. I donā€™t understand why it is singled out for derision. \ I really enjoyed _What Dreams May Come._ I love the whole idea of the movie, being set in ā€œheavenā€ - I found it quite thought-provoking. > [@E-DUB](#): > > ā€œThe Postmanā€. Not saying that it was a great movie, or even a particularly good one. Just that it was nowhere near as bad as you might think from the reviews/critics. I liked _The Postman_, too - I read the book, and that may have coloured my enjoyment of the movie, since I really liked the book. > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think What Dreams May Come may be one of my favorite movies. I think it is beautiful, engaging and fascinating. I recently went back and looked at some reviews of it when it came out and am just confused by the overwhelming shrugs the critics gave it. > > Also, like Iā€™ve said in other threads-- I will defend The Postman with every breath. Itā€™s a good movie. Are you me? šŸ™‚ > [@Chefguy](#): > > **Dances With Wolves** : itā€™s become a tiring meme to bash this great film simply because it stars Kevin Costner, who admittedly has made some clunkers since then. But this movie had an outstanding cast and was beautifully filmed. Iā€™ve watched it several times, the last time after reading the umpteenth ā€˜teh suxā€™ comment, and itā€™s as engrossing as the first time I saw it. That is probably the perfect example for this thread - it really is a very, very good movie, and any derision really is unjust. Itā€™s not perfect; just very, very good. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > \And I kind of enjoyed Signs, the last Shyamalan movie I was able to enjoy; I personally go with the ā€œtheyā€™re demons, and itā€™s a Job taleā€ interpretation, and while thatā€™s not a God I believe in, itā€™s a good story, even if the God it describes is both Old Testament and vaguely Lovecraftian. Very interesting - Iā€™ll have to re-watch it with that idea in mind. > [@DrDeth](#): > > \ > \*John Carter \* is actually pretty good. The critics thought it ā€œderivativeā€ where in actually most SF of that sort is derived from ERB. Theyā€¦they donā€™t seriously criticize it on those grounds, do they? They do understand that so much seems familiar because Edgar Rice Burroughs _invented_ it, right? > [@Quimby](#): > > Adding another one: Contagion. Everyone laments how dumb movies can get. They made a smart one and no one went to see it. And Gwyneth Paltrow even dies miserably in it! What more do you want?!? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I mostly loved it, but the female lead was so irritatingly written that it nearly ruined the movie for me. \ That would be Gwyneth Paltrow. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/155 "2014-11-16T12:29:29Z")
I donā€™t know if these are actually derided _per se_, but they certainly are not celebrated as the fine works of cinema that they are. _Mars Attacks!_ is pure fun from beginning to end. The 1967 production of _Casino Royale_ is worse than unjustly derided, itā€™s unjustly neglected. Some people donā€™t even consider it to be a real James Bond film. I, on the other hand, rightly regard it as the best Bond film and the last James Bond film that anyone needs to watch (because all subsequent Bond films are encumbered with that huge unresolved plot hole). ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/156 "2014-11-16T12:45:28Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Wrt _Starship Troopers_: > I think the political element was interesting, but I felt it could have been explored much deeper. I think there was a genuine masterpiece somewhere in that film, but the director made it far too cartoonish and low-brow to achieve its full potential. From what Iā€™ve heard, the book was brilliant and the movie just dumbed things down. What a shame. You heard wrong, Iā€™m afraid. Verhoeven and Heinleinā€™s work have prettty much opposite agendas and little in common You didnā€™t find the characterisation of rag-head Mooslims and French surrender monkeys cartoonish? How about ā€˜evildoersā€™ and their ā€˜terrah!ā€™? Or those dumbass lies about _weapons of mass destruction_ - all those foolish, child-like lies we saw straight through? Text book case of how you create an ā€˜enemyā€™. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/157 "2014-11-16T12:52:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Squirting poop into space is a hell of a feat. šŸ™‚ In any event, the film doesnā€™t really five any indication the bugs DIDNā€™T fire the asteroid. Itā€™s consistent with what we see on screen to believe it might have been a pretext, but really it doesnā€™t matter either way, since it is already rather strongly implied the humans may have started the war prior to Buenos Aires being destroyed. There is really no clear explanation as to when the war started or who started it, which is sadly pretty consistent with how a lot of wars start. I am kind of rusty on the nuances; it was astoroid though - folks donā€™t fire/aim astoroids ā€¦ I guess the point is you donā€™t have to make a whole lot of sense if people want to believe or are primed to believeā€¦ > [@RickJay](#): > > One thing that always bothered me about the film, aside from it being boring, was using Michael Ironside to play two characters as one (heā€™s the teacher, and then suddenly heā€™s an officer.) In the book theyā€™re different characters, and at the time, as now, I was astonished at what a terrible decision it was to combine them I havenā€™t seen Verhoeven explain that decision and I do find it difficult to criticise what is essentially an artistic decision without knowing the rationale. Certainly jars, given how well thought-through the work is, it would be interested to know the thinking ā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/158 "2014-11-16T15:10:14Z")
On reflection, Paltrowā€™s character in _Sky Captain_ was pretty true to the source material, if we consider such to be (at least partly) the Max Fleischer _Superman_ cartoons. Polly Perkins is basically a live-action version of every irritatingly impulsively self-endangering aspect of Lois Lane, only we were subjected to 90 minutes of her instead of just 7. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/159 "2014-11-16T15:13:24Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > I havenā€™t seen Verhoeven explain that decision and I do find it difficult to criticise what is essentially an artistic decision without knowing the rationale. Certainly jars, given how well thought-through the work is, it would be interested to know the thinking ā€¦ Itā€™s Michael Ironside. Iā€™d have to look for excuses to _not_ have him in every scene. Of course, now Iā€™m musing on the ultimate masculine-man cast. Ironside, Danny Trejo, Liam Neesonā€¦ fuck that _Expendables_ shit, thisā€™d be the real deal. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/160 "2014-11-16T15:18:12Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > As for another example, I think _What Dreams May Come_ is a fine movie. I donā€™t understand why it is singled out for derision. I mean, I like _Titanic_, but I do understand why it gets hated. WDMC just seems like a middle of the road movie, not a particularly offensive one. I thought _What Dreams May Come_ was visually stunning, but the film seemed pretty dumb to me. Mike Nelson dissects its inanities hilariously in his book \*_Movie Megacheese_. His summing up ā€“ Itā€™s vision of heaven looks like the outcome of ā€œtwo guys doing bong hits.ā€ The film is based o a book by the great Richard Matheson, whose stuff I love. I havenā€™t read this book, though, and perhaps I should some time, just to see what the filmmakers started out with. Thereā€™s little doubt in my mind that they screwed around with the ending, possibly after running the film by test audiences. It has a tacked-on feel, and doesnā€™t really go with the rest of the film. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549.md?page=9)