# Name an unjustly derided movie. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 13, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549 "2014-11-13T18:22:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/161 "2014-11-16T15:44:13Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > On reflection, Paltrow’s character in _Sky Captain_ was pretty true to the source material, if we consider such to be (at least partly) the Max Fleischer _Superman_ cartoons. Polly Perkins is basically a live-action version of every irritatingly impulsively self-endangering aspect of Lois Lane, only we were subjected to 90 minutes of her instead of just 7. Didn’t Lois Lane tend toward the competent? I could be wrong, but I thought she was a very good journalist (Wikipedia calls her “award-winning.”) In the movie, much is made of how incompetent the character is. It may be that Paltrow is a terrible actress–I don’t have an opinion on her either way–but the way that character was written was really a bad idea. She would have been so much more interesting if she’d been super-competent within her field. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/162 "2014-11-16T16:56:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Didn’t Lois Lane tend toward the competent? I could be wrong, but I thought she was a very good journalist (Wikipedia calls her “award-winning.”) In the movie, much is made of how incompetent the character is. The latter day (well, I’d say Bronze Age onward) comic-book Lois Lane is competent, certainly, but in the Fleischer cartoons, she was always hiding in the bad guy’s vehicle to “get the story” or doing something else stupidly self-endangering. I suppose on at least one occasion she made herself useful, in the sense of breaking the bad guy’s machine or something, but overall she was pretty much damsel-who-_put_-herself-in-distress. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/163 "2014-11-16T19:49:03Z")
> [@Moe](#): > > **Dutch**. Always my first thought with these kinds of threads. I wouldn’t use the word _unjustly_ because I don’t know how to gauge that, but it’s 14% on RT and I don’t think I’ve ever heard or read anyone say anything good about this movie. Yet I find it a rather touching, well-acted, more-or-less solid film within a common genre/formula. Ed O’Neill gives a very good performance and I think there is surprisingly good chemistry between him and the kid. I’m not saying the movie’s a masterpiece, but I find it mystifying why it seems to have left almost no positive impressions at at all. I agree. I really like this film, and I had no idea it got such lousy ratings. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/164 "2014-11-16T20:45:27Z")
Re: Mars Attacks, if I recall it was lambasted…including by me. However, I think I could enjoy it today…the same cannot be said for Sleepy Hollow, Planet of the Apes or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/165 "2014-11-16T23:06:05Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > There’s little doubt in my mind that they screwed around with the ending, possibly after running the film by test audiences. It has a tacked-on feel, and doesn’t really go with the rest of the film. There is an alternate ending on the DVD, and if that was the first ending, I’m glad the test audiences complained - I hated it. I thought it diminished then point (as I saw it) of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/166 "2014-11-16T23:15:59Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Re: Mars Attacks, if I recall it was lambasted…including by me. However, I think I could enjoy it today…the same cannot be said for Sleepy Hollow, Planet of the Apes or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Sleepy Hollow was extremely well-liked by critics and audiences. > **[Sleepy Hollow | Rotten Tomatoes](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sleepy_hollow)** > > Set in 1799, "Sleepy Hollow" is based on Washington Irving's classic tale "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow." Faithful to the dreamy custom-bound world that Irving paints in his story, the film mixes horror, fantasy and romance and features an... ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/167 "2014-11-16T23:24:53Z")
_Stargate._ The Emmerich film, not the TV show. Its use of language was a striking contrast to the usual pop-culture portrayal of aliens speaking English. _First Knight._ No, it’s not classic Arthuriana, it just uses the names. But it’s not like the traditional medieval mishmash we call “classic Arthuriana” is historical or even consistent with the earliest known sources of the Arthur tradition. It’s a good movie, that remembers that medieval Europe was a) Christian, and b) not overrun with magic-users. And its climax is an argument about God and justice! Kevin Costner’s _The Postman._ Gets slammed by David Brin fans (but not Brin himself) for not being as far into bonkers sci-fi as the novel. Gets slammed by film buffs for not being _Il Postino._ Has some serious issues, what with the star being the executive producer, the director, and having final edit. Self-indulgent, runs long. It’s still a beautiful meditation on the nature of good government and civil society. With horses. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/168 "2014-11-16T23:27:38Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Since we went on a bit of a tangent regarding M. Night Shyamalan, I’m curious if anyone liked _The Lady in the Water_. > > I happen to think it is perhaps the worst movie ever made. Many would agree, but I’ve had (actor) friends try and tell me it was good. I guess I missed something. I liked it well enough. Some relatives who were very into free-form roleplay loved it–because it’s about storytelling, in some way? I think it’s one of those things that you like or you don’t, but its objective badness quotient is pretty low. There was, iirc, just one bit that I thought was weak rather than just peculiar; but it’s been several years. I’m quite sure I have seen worse movies. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/169 "2014-11-16T23:37:12Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Sleepy Hollow was extremely well-liked by critics and audiences. > > [Sleepy Hollow | Rotten Tomatoes](http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sleepy_hollow/) Carson: “I did not know that.” There should be a thread about films that you’re utterly stunned to find out were popular. Edit: I think a lot of people liked Charlie and the Chocolate Factory too…but not I. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/170 "2014-11-16T23:58:02Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > But I found it funny that After Earth didn’t even advertise that he was the director. Yeah, that was something. I kind of thought that was Will Smith deciding to make it all about the Smiths. > [@RickJay](#): > > It is rather noteworthy that the “Starship Troopers” reviews get a lot more positive, and start singing the “but it’s a satire!” tune, only long after the movie’s release. Look at the review dates if you don’t believe me. I could tell it was a satire when I watched it. I may have read an interview with Verhoeven beforehand, I don’t know. I’m not a great Verhoeven fan, but ST and Robocop are movies of his that I liked for the satire–or movies I didn’t like much, but had satirical bits I did like. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/171 "2014-11-17T00:10:33Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > **Multiplicity** , a Harold Ramis comedy based on a great _National Lampoon_ story by Chris Miller. It mined a lot of the same territory as **Groundhog Day** , but Bill Murray refused to get involved with the picture and his role went instead to Michael Keaton. The role didn’t play to Keaton’s particular strengths, but it was still a really good film. > > Speaking of Ramis, he was getting a little desperate for a comeback and Murray still didn’t want to return his phone calls when Ramis did the remake of **Bedazzled**. Not sure whether Ramis wanted Murray for the main role or for the Devil role, but Brendan Fraser (never any director’s first choice, it seems) starred as Elliot and Elizabeth Hurley (sexy and funny, but not quite a movie star) was the Devil. It had its moments (I liked all the surtitles of all the minor character’s sins), but they remade a movie that was pretty flawless the first time out, never a great idea, and gave it an ending with less punch. Both of these are sort of painful (intentionally) and funny both. I won’t knock them. You should check out the physical variation/transformation Keaton gets up to in _Multiplicity._ He’s a really good actor. I have a soft spot for \*Bedazzled \*maybe for similar reasons I have a soft spot for _Joe Vs. the Volcano._ I may be a sucker for movies that blatantly play with visual and casting motifs. And Bill Murray would not have been an improvement on Brendan Fraser. Might have made a good devil. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/172 "2014-11-17T03:24:40Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > As usual the book was much better. And I think they could have followed it a bit more closely and made it a better movie. I’m no fanboy who things that movies should follow a book exactly. But sometimes it’s hard to see why certain things were changed. Yes, the book was much better, and the movie followed only about the first 1/4 of the book’s plotline. I did see it in the theater when it first came out. The seats were filled, and I didn’t notice anyone leaving early. I thought the movie was okay, but maybe just because I was a Tom Petty fan. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/173 "2014-11-17T04:44:32Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > You heard wrong, I’m afraid. Verhoeven and Heinlein’s work have prettty much opposite agendas and little in common. And that’s the problem. You know what, I think I’ll write a screenplay: * * * A handsome young man and a beautiful young woman, both scions of families of power and wealth. The families are rivals and the young people become implacable enemies who spend their entire lives trying to destroy each other, but end up each becoming richer and more powerful than ever. It’ll be a brilliant satire on the current political situation with the Democrats and Republicans. ## I’ll call it Romeo and Juliet. That won’t piss anybody off, will it? When you name your work directly after a source, you assume an obligation to at least remain somewhat true to the actual source, not take a giant shit on it and call it art. Verhoeven is a pretentious prick and a fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/174 "2014-11-17T11:58:23Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > When you name your work directly after a source, you assume an obligation to at least remain somewhat true to the actual source, not take a giant shit on it and call it art. Verhoeven is a pretentious prick and a fraud. Again, calling it Starship Troopers likely wasn’t Verhoeven’s decision. The studio purchased the film rights to the book after the film (which was originally titled “Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine”) had begun production. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/175 "2014-11-17T12:59:30Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Again, calling it Starship Troopers likely wasn’t Verhoeven’s decision. The studio purchased the film rights to the book after the film (which was originally titled “Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine”) had begun production. Except all the characters had names from the book and the movie followed the book’s general plot outline. If there was an original script, it was altered beyond all recognition to match the book. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/176 "2014-11-17T13:06:50Z")
Or this: > [@](#): > > A report in an American Cinematographer article states that the Heinlein novel was optioned well into the pre-production period of the film, which had a working title of Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine; most of the writing team reportedly were unaware of the novel at the time. > **[Starship Troopers (film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_%28film%29#Comparison_with_the_novel)** > > Starship Troopers is a 1997 American science fiction action film directed by Paul Verhoeven and written by Edward Neumeier, based on the 1959 novel by Robert A. Heinlein. Set in the 23rd century, the story follows teenager Johnny Rico and his comrades as they serve in the military of the United Citizen Federation, an Earth-based world government engaged in an interstellar war against an alien species known as the Arachnids. The film stars Casper Van Dien, Dina Meyer, Denise Richards, Jake Bu... Plus, FWIW: > [@](#): > > There are many differences between the original book and film. While the original novel has been accused of promoting militarism, fascism and military rule,[8][9] the film satirizes these concepts by featuring news reports that are intensely fascist, xenophobic, and propagandistic. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/177 "2014-11-17T13:10:48Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > And that’s the problem. You know what, I think I’ll write a screenplay: > > * * * > > A handsome young man and a beautiful young woman, both scions of families of power and wealth. The families are rivals and the young people become implacable enemies who spend their entire lives trying to destroy each other, but end up each becoming richer and more powerful than ever. It’ll be a brilliant satire on the current political situation with the Democrats and Republicans. > > ## I’ll call it Romeo and Juliet. That won’t piss anybody off, will it? > > When you name your work directly after a source, you assume an obligation to at least remain somewhat true to the actual source, not take a giant shit on it and call it art. Verhoeven is a pretentious prick and a fraud. Og knows that the problems with **Starship Troopers** have been hashed out \*ad nauseum \* on this Board, but I’d just like to add a couple of thoughts. 1.) I can’t think of any other film in which the gulf between the source material and the film have been so incredibly wide. I’m not talking about minor changes in plot and dialogue. The two are separated by miles in basic philosophical outlook, in their approach to scientific accuracy (Heinlein is probably pirouetting in his grave over the scientific howlers alone in ST, regardless of what else they’ve done to his work – and Heinlein was one of the top “hard” sf writers), and in mere common sense (the troopers go down practically unarmored onto a planet literally swarming with bug warriors that are essentially no-cost killing machines? Whose bright idea was that? And the soldiers round up The Bugs by getting in a circle and firing at them? Wasn’t that a bad ethnic joke — _(reviled nationality here) Firing Squad_?) 2.) I think another beef the Heinlein fans had with Veerhoeven and company was that few enough adaptations of significant SF works get made, with big budgets and good effects, and here they had to trash it this way, ignoring the well thought-out details of culture and engineering, making people do dumb things, and being philosophically 180 degrees from the original. I think that also explains the grief over **I, Robot** ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/178 "2014-11-17T13:27:52Z")
I think the main beef Heinlein fans had with Verhoeven and company is that they felt they were mocking Heinlein. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/179 "2014-11-17T17:01:53Z")
Re: The Last Action Hero: I think everybody got that it was supposed to be a satire. It just wasn’t a \*good \*satire, because most of the jokes were too obvious. For instance, the kid points out the 555 area codes, a trope of which the audience has already known about for decades. Also, I remember at the time it was heavily promoted through merchandise like toys, fast food cups, etc like it was another Arnold action movie, and Arnold action movies are always supposed to be blockbusters. I think the negativity was more due to the excess commercial stimulation than the movie itself. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549/180 "2014-11-17T17:33:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I mostly loved it, but the female lead was so irritatingly written that it nearly ruined the movie for me. She should have been a hardbitten no-bullshit reporter; instead, she was an incompetent bimbo pretending to be a reporter. Everything else nailed the type, but she made me cringe every time she was on screen. Right. Same with _Superman Returns_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-an-unjustly-derided-movie/704549.md?page=10)