# Name for all peoples from the UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 31, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937 "2002-12-31T20:48:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/61 "2003-01-03T01:34:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alexandra \* > \*\*I know a lot of Brits who wouldn’t get offended by said term. \*\* Exactly. I am an English/Scottish crossbreed and absolutely insist on being called British. Call me English at your peril. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/62 "2003-01-03T02:27:52Z")
Alright, stop fighting you damn Britonites. Or I’ll instruct the Dutch Navy to sail up the Thames again, and reinstate some order on the damn Isles. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![toscar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f9ae1b/32.png) [@toscar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toscar)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/63 "2003-01-03T12:09:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by irishgirl \* > \*\*you’ll call me british at your own risk. > despite what my passport says. > > (technically, i’m entitled to triple nationality (ritish, irish and german)…it’s just easier to get a british passport than any of the others, and causes less confusion. > although i quite fancy having a german passport with Belfast as my place of birth.) > > leave us out of it. > north and south. \*\* I think it a safe bet to say that if a native of Northern Ireland prefers to be called Irish he/she is a Roman Catholic and it’s equally safe to bet that if he/she prefers to be called British he/she is a Protestant. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/64 "2003-01-03T12:18:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by toscar \* > \*\*I think it a safe bet to say that if a native of Northern Ireland prefers to be called Irish he/she is a Roman Catholic and it’s equally safe to bet that if he/she prefers to be called British he/she is a Protestant. \*\* Usually but not always true. There are Catholic Unionists and Protestant Nationalists, although not that many. There are also Unionists, mostly Protestant, who don’t object to being called Irish, and who don’t see being Irish as inconsistent with being British. But what’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/65 "2003-01-03T12:21:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by toscar \* > \*\*I think it a safe bet to say that if a native of Northern Ireland prefers to be called Irish he/she is a Roman Catholic and it’s equally safe to bet that if he/she prefers to be called British he/she is a Protestant. \*\* Not exclusively - I know several NI Protestants who count themselves as Irish (though admittedly I don’t know any Catholics who count themselves British). The religious thing is an irrelevance here, though. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/66 "2003-01-03T12:31:02Z")
It’s illuminating that there is no term for people from NI rather than Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/67 "2003-01-03T12:39:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlstretchingtime \* > \*\*It’s illuminating that there is no term for people from NI rather than Ireland. \*\* Well, I think it betrays the fact that Northern Ireland is a recently and artificially created area, whose border (and therefore population) was determined for political rather than cultural or ethnic reasons. Since its creation in 1920 it has begun to acquire a distinct identity, based on its history and experience, which has differed signficantly both from that of the Republic of Ireland and from that of Great Britain. The language has yet to catch up by developing a term for the people of Northern Ireland. This development has probably been retarded by the facts that (a) on the Nationalist side, the existence of Northern Ireland as a separate entity is still a matter of controversy, and (b) on the Unionist side, they tend to define themselves by stressing their community with the people of Great Britain, rather than by stressing their distinct experience and identity. Also they tend to define themselves in a way which excludes their Nationalist fellow-citizens, so a term for all the people of Northern Ireland is not really useful. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/68 "2003-01-03T12:43:46Z")
What I was trying to say is that all the terms for us eg sassenach, paddy, taffy etc are made up by others about us because we are different from them. As there is no name for ulstermen it would appear to mean that to the rest of the UK they are indistinguishable from the micks in general. I think that’s quite illuminating. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/69 "2003-01-03T12:45:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **. . . admittedly I don’t know any Catholics who count themselves British . . .** Here’s one: [http://www.ni-assembly.gov.uk/members/biogs/jgorman.htm](http://www.ni-assembly.gov.uk/members/biogs/jgorman.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/70 "2003-01-03T13:33:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Steve Wright \* > **Hmm. I am an adherent of UDS’s sense (a) … people from Great Britain are British, people from Ireland are Irish. This may offend the diehard Orangemen who insist on being called British, but, let’s face it, I’m likely to offend diehard Orangemen in many ways whatever I do, so I’m not going to worry about it.** Interesting that everyone is very concerned about not offending one proportion of Northern Ireland, but couldn’t give a toss about offending the other. You don’t have to be a diehard Orangeman to consider yourself a British citizen from Northern Ireland. Obviously it’s a tricky issue, which is why residents of Northern Ireland are best collectively called Northern Irish. Beyond that it breaks down to individual preference. The lack of a name for a resident of the UK boils down, IMHO, lack of need for one (when we have so many names already) and the difficulties of creating any word from such an awkward root. ---
**Author:** ![toscar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f9ae1b/32.png) [@toscar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toscar)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/71 "2003-01-03T14:00:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > \*\*Usually but not always true. There are Catholic Unionists and Protestant Nationalists, although not that many. There are also Unionists, mostly Protestant, who don’t object to being called Irish, and who don’t see being Irish as inconsistent with being British. > > But what’s your point? \*\* I’m merely making an observation but instead of “safe bet” perhaps I should’ve said, “fairly safe bet.” I was generalising and the remark is made from personal experience. And all experience is limited. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/72 "2003-01-03T14:11:50Z")
I’m not setting out to offend anyone … I don’t _want_ to offend anyone … but there are extreme cases amongst the Orange Order who just find things I believe intrinsically offensive. Like, I’ve nothing particularly against the Pope. And I think Catholics and Protestants are all Christians and should be able to live together peacefully. And I wouldn’t mind seeing a reunited Ireland, if the majority in Northern Ireland were in favour of it, and it could be done peacefully. There are people from the province who are _viscerally_ opposed to these ideas - I know there are, I’ve _met_ some of them. I mean, fair enough, a citizen of NI is entitled to call him/herself British if s/he wants to (in **UDS** ’s sense (b)). All I’m saying is that, in my slack and demotic dialect, if I don’t have to be legally and technically correct, I will draw a line down the middle of the Irish Sea and refer to people on the other side from me as Irish. (Please don’t ask me about the Isle of Man.) It _is_ a shame, though, that we can’t use “British” for everyone in these isles. After all, when it was introduced in the seventeenth century, “Britain” was an aspirational concept; an over-arcing fellowship of the nations of these islands. It’s sad that subsequent historical events have made that concept untenable. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/73 "2003-01-03T14:41:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Steve Wright \* > \*\*And I wouldn’t mind seeing a reunited Ireland, if the majority in Northern Ireland were in favour of it, and it could be done peacefully. There are people from the province who are _viscerally_ opposed to these ideas - I know there are, I’ve _met_ some of them. \*\* And I wouldn’t mind seeing a divided Ireland, if the majority in Northern Ireland were in favour of it. But there are people from the province who are _viscerally_ opposed to this ideas. Remember; being open minded about things also means being equally willing to accept the status quo. No-one’s saying Northern Ireland is an ideal situation, but prefering it doesn’t make you an extremist or a bad person. The majority of NI **are** in favour of a divided Ireland and **want** to be called British. So I imagine it must rankle to see people fret about upsetting others while not caring about offending them. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/74 "2003-01-03T15:30:25Z")
In fact, our very own **irishgirl** is one of the exceptions to toscar’s generalisation. I’d like to raise my hand here and count myself as one of those who does care about offending the British-identifying people of the North … at least on a personal level. I’m sure that will surprise some of you, given that I’ve made my feelings on the partition issue pretty well known here over the years. _I_ think that everyone born on this island is Irish - but I have had unionist friends from the North who don’t consider themselves such, and consequentially I will not refer to them as such (at least not to their faces). It’s a matter of simple courtesy. I think OST is correct (to a point) about “all the micks” being indistinguishable to many British. I have heard, anecdotally, numerous tales of unionists visiting “the mainland” (their terminology of course, not mine) considering themselves loyal British subjects and being absolutely outraged to find themselves referred to as “Paddy” and treated in, well, much the same way many of them have treated northern (and southern) nationalists. In at least one case that I’m aware of this has even resulted in a complete reevaluation of the constitutional issue and a new self-identification of the person in question as an Irishman. And sorry Steve, but I certainly don’t think there’s anything sad about the fact that the people of Ireland aren’t British! ---
**Author:** ![Deptford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Deptford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deptford)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/75 "2003-01-03T17:17:53Z")
Well speaking as a Londoner, i can tell you that you can just refer to us all as English. Those wacky Scots, Welsh and Irish just pretend they don’t like it.Secretly however we all know it gives them a warm fuzzy glow. ---
**Author:** ![mogiaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mogiaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mogiaw)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/76 "2003-01-06T01:42:45Z")
> [@](#): > > It _is_ a shame, though, that we can’t use “British” for everyone in these isles. After all, when it was introduced in the seventeenth century, “Britain” was an aspirational concept; an over-arcing fellowship of the nations of these islands. It’s sad that subsequent historical events have made that concept untenable. \*\* It is also a shame that us Irish didn’t get our act together and create a global empire years ago and then maybe we’d all be Irish now. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/77 "2003-01-06T04:34:49Z")
_UDS Actually, “Brit” itself … when used by anyone else, is usually derogatory._ Quite. Notably, in Northern Ireland as a pejorative term for British troops, and by extension mainland British people in general (as in the slogan “Brits Out”). It seems, consequently, to have slipped into US usage via news items about Northern Ireland. In general, I don’t think English people use it of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/78 "2003-01-06T09:06:10Z")
Do you guys never stop beating at the same issues? I go away for a few weeks and you bring it all up again. Typical. 😉 Happy New Year to all anyway. **mogiaw** , I think the Irish are taking over the world, through subtle use of Oirish theme bars and guinness sales. Them bars are everywhere, and to what evil purpose, who can tell… ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/79 "2003-01-06T10:51:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \* > \*\*Is there a name, derogatory or nice, for all those who come from the British Isles (and the _Irish Isles_ if that’s not included in them)? > > That is, who are either British, Irish, Scottish or Welsh? \*\* Well, the Germans use the rather derogatory term “Inselaffen”, which translates as “island monkeys”. But then again, I prefer the worst “island monkey” to the best “Frosch” (“frog”) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TheMadHun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@TheMadHun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMadHun)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/80 "2003-01-06T11:57:58Z")
Typical argumentative Irish, that ruadh. All indignant outrage and posturing. Like it or lump it, Northern Ireland exists and it’s citizens are British, as well as subjects of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. _stands back and awaits green white and orange fireworks_ 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937.md?page=5)