# Name for all peoples from the UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 31, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937 "2002-12-31T20:48:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/81 "2003-01-06T12:12:25Z")
About “Briton”, though, how can you say that anyone is Celtic or not? There’s been so much population mixing since Roman times I’m not sure you can find a "pure “Celt”. Likewise, all the Anglo-Saxons may well have as much French (Norman), Danish/Norweigan, and Celtic Blood as they do Anglo-Saxon. ANdthats not even counting the more distant strains. ---
**Author:** ![TheMadHun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@TheMadHun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMadHun)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/82 "2003-01-06T12:22:14Z")
I’ve always taken Briton to mean “resident of Great Britain”. People waving dictionary definitions about are missing the point. If a word is used in a certain context by enough people (as Briton has been) it takes on that meaning. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/83 "2003-01-06T12:23:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheMadHun \* > \*\*Typical argumentative Irish, that ruadh. All indignant outrage and posturing. Like it or lump it, Northern Ireland exists and it’s citizens are British, as well as subjects of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. > > _stands back and awaits green white and orange fireworks_ > > 😉 \*\* No fireworks, but . . . As a matter of law people from Northern Ireland do, as you say, have British citizenship. Strictly speaking they are “British citizens” as defined in the British Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1981, but this is a legal construct, not a cultural or national one. There are three classes of British national; British Citizens, British Dependent Territories Citizens and British Overseas Citizens, and all three classes contain people who are not considered to be British in a cultural sense by themselves or anyone else. (By the same reasoning people from Northern Ireland are all subject of the British queen, but even less turns on this. Canadians, for example, are subjects of the same queen but nobdy suggests that they are “British” as a result.) In a cultural sense, I suggest, people are “British” (or insert nationality of choice) if they consider themselves to be British, and are regarded as British by the generality of other people who consider themselves to be British. On that view of the matter some people from Northern Ireland are British and others are not. The biggest threat to the Britishness of people from Northern Ireland is the risk that British people from Great Britain might not regard them as British. ---
**Author:** ![TheMadHun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@TheMadHun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMadHun)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/84 "2003-01-06T12:38:25Z")
My comments were intended as light-hearted. I think the whole issue is subjective. It’s more to do with your own sense of belonging or whatever cultural buttons have been pressed as you grew up. I’m Scottish first and foremost, and I could present a strong argument for there never having been anything more than a pseudo-political entity called “Great Britain”. That, however, is another thread. ---
**Author:** ![mogiaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mogiaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mogiaw)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/85 "2003-01-09T15:38:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aro \* > \*\*Do you guys never stop beating at the same issues? I go away for a few weeks and you bring it all up again. Typical. 😉 > Happy New Year to all anyway. > > **mogiaw** , I think the Irish are taking over the world, through subtle use of Oirish theme bars and guinness sales. > > Them bars are everywhere, and to what evil purpose, who can tell… \*\* Aro, ssshhhhhhhhhhhh you’re not meant to tell anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Berk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c37758/32.png) [@Royal\_Berk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Berk)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/86 "2003-01-09T15:47:51Z")
British - a geographic term, which means if you come from the British Isles (incorporating the islands of Great Britain, Ireland, the Orkneys, Man, Wight and many others); or alternatively British - which means you come from the island of Great Britain and its off-lying small islands. I make no claims on which definition, if either, is right. But sadly many do, a small difference of opinion which has spilt a lot of blood over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Berk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c37758/32.png) [@Royal\_Berk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Berk)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/87 "2003-01-09T16:40:47Z")
…in fact, it’s a pity that the big island’s called “Great Britain” - that’s only a geographical term, to distinguish it from ‘Little Britain’, i.e. Brittany in France. It’s like the Great Lakes in the U.S. - they’re big, that’s all. It’s not as if a resident of Chicago would go to the waterfront and says ‘what a wonderful lake, it’s great’. Or do they? ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/88 "2003-01-09T17:14:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlstretchingtime \* > \*\*As there is no name for ulstermen it would appear to mean that to the rest of the UK they are indistinguishable from the micks in general. \*\* I think the derogatory name / term **DOB** has been used by certain people in certain circumstances. It’s an acronym, can you guess what for? But I guess it can only be applied to about 56% (simplistically speaking) of the residents of NI. 😉 (PS Ulster is NOT Northern Ireland, it is 3 counties bigger. But you probably knew that anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![DrNick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@DrNick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrNick)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/89 "2003-01-09T17:26:39Z")
It is absolutely the case that to the vast majority of Scottish/Welsh/English people that people from NI and Eire are all collectively considered Irish. Similar to the way that all of us (UK and Eire) are considered English by everyone else until we say we’re not. It’s amazing how pissy some people get about being called British though - I mean, I’d call myself Scottish first, but I’m not about to get huffy just cos you call me a brit. But yeah, that’s much more an Irish thing on the whole. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/90 "2003-01-09T17:31:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Royal Berk \* > **British - a geographic term, which means if you come from the British Isles (incorporating the islands of Great Britain, Ireland, the Orkneys, Man, Wight and many others)** Welcome to the boards. Though the isles are generically “the British Isles”, I have found no source whatsoever that includes the inhabitants of any part of Ireland in the _geographical_ sense of the word “British”. If you can find me a source, then I’ll concede. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by DrNick_ > **But yeah, that’s much more an Irish thing on the whole.** People from the Republic of Ireland, on the whole, take exception to being called British because a) it’s incorrect, and b) they fought a war within living memory to become independent of Britain. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/91 "2003-01-10T07:09:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrNick \* > It is absolutely the case that to the vast majority of Scottish/Welsh/English people that people from **NI and Eire** are all collectively considered Irish. … and for the 26,746th time, “Éire” means “Ireland” not just “the Republic of Ireland”. > [@](#): > > Though the isles are generically “the British Isles” No they’re not 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/92 "2003-01-10T09:08:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*No they’re not 😛 \*\* What are they, then? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/93 "2003-01-10T11:25:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrNick \* > > It’s amazing how pissy some people get about being called British though - I mean, I’d call myself Scottish first, but I’m not about to get huffy just cos you call me a brit. But yeah, that’s much more an Irish thing on the whole. As **jimm** said the reason why Irish people get huffy is that they are not British and we fought a war 80 odd years ago not to be. You being Scottish are British. You may not like it but you are British. I’m as British as a French man. The Republic isn’t in Britain it isn’t a part of Britain and its citizens are not British. You would probably get huffy if you had to correct people all the time that you weren’t French. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Berk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c37758/32.png) [@Royal\_Berk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Berk)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/94 "2003-01-10T11:37:15Z")
As I posted earlier, it’s amazing how upset people can get if you either exclude OR include Ireland from the “British Isles”. My personal take: a Mexican would be offended if you said he came from the Americas, but would be if you said he was American. And it always amazes me how many people over the age of 80, and who fought for Ireland/England/Britain (delete as applicable), are able to post on message boards. I’ve never knowingly fought any-one, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Berk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c37758/32.png) [@Royal\_Berk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Berk)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/95 "2003-01-10T11:40:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Royal Berk \* > \*\*My personal take: a Mexican would be offended if you said he came from the Americas, but would be if you said he was American. \*\* Sorry, should be “a Mexican would NOT be offended…” ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/96 "2003-01-10T11:41:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Royal Berk \* > **My personal take: a Mexican would be offended if you said he came from the Americas, but would be if you said he was American.** I presume you meant “wouldn’t” in your first clause. > [@](#): > > \*\*And it always amazes me how many people over the age of 80, and who fought for Ireland/England/Britain (delete as applicable), are able to post on message boards. I’ve never knowingly fought any-one, myself. \*\* I said _living_ memory, not _our_ living memory - like people’s grandparents, parents, etc. The Rising and the War of Independence are still relatively fresh in people’s minds here. Kind of similar to why we wear poppies every November in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/97 "2003-01-10T11:43:07Z")
I’ve no problem with Ireland being part of the British Isles as it’s a geographical term. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Berk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c37758/32.png) [@Royal\_Berk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Berk)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/98 "2003-01-10T11:57:07Z")
Good point about poppies - remember & respect the fallen, but don’t hate the descendants of the people your ancestors were fighting. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/99 "2003-01-10T11:59:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Royal Berk \* > \*\*Good point about poppies - remember & respect the fallen, but don’t hate the descendants of the people your ancestors were fighting. \*\* For the vast, vast majority (and I speak as an Englishman who’s been here for more than 7 years), they don’t. But a lot of people do get justifiably pissed off when people call them Brits, coz they ain’t! ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/100 "2003-01-10T12:19:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\*I’ve no problem with Ireland being part of the British Isles as it’s a geographical term. \*\* I have to say that I do have a problem. Extending the term “British” to cover Ireland in a geographical sense is just as inaccurate as it is in a political, social or cultural sense, and I don’t see why it should be considered acceptable in one context but not in another. FWIW – UK legislation defines the term “British Islands” (to mean the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands) but does not define the term “British Isles”; Irish legislation does not define either term; At least one international treaty (the Hague Convention on Child Abduction) defines the term “British Isles” to mean the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands; and The only political body to span both the UK, Ireland, Man and the Channel Islands is the British Irish Council and (as its name suggests) it is at some pains to avoid using the term “British Isles”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937.md?page=6)