# Name for all peoples from the UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 31, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937 "2002-12-31T20:48:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/101 "2003-01-10T12:27:21Z")
Fair enough **UDS** but I still don’t have a problem with it 🙂 We Irish don’t control all the Irish Sea but it’s still the Irish Sea 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/102 "2003-01-10T12:49:23Z")
Political and legal bodies aside, though, it’s a _hugely_ accepted term thoughout the world, though (and even - grudgingly - by most people in Ireland). Just off the top of my google, [Houghton Mifflin & Princeton University](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=british%20isles) and the [Encyclopaedia Brittanica](http://www.britannica.com/search?query=%22british%20isles%22&ct=&fuzzy=N) (yes, I do note the irony of that name) both count Ireland as a member. There are countless others. ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/103 "2003-01-10T12:58:45Z")
I’ve heard the term “North West European Isles” used by some halfwits. I’m quite secure in my Irishness. I don’t feel the need to embark on a public information campaign every time someone fails to appreciate the intricacies of our terminology. If someone refers to me as British, I’ll probably correct them but I certainly won’t get offended. The south has been independent for over 80 years and I would like to think that we’ve gone beyond the stage of being touchy post-colonials. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/104 "2003-01-10T13:01:39Z")
Yes, I have to say I don’t get too exercised by it. If somebody refers to me as British I will usually point out the error. What annoys me is if they insist that they are correct, and point to the term “British Isles” to support their assertion that I am British. Don’ they see the circularity of this argument? ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/105 "2003-01-10T13:21:58Z")
I \*\* suppose\*\* we could all be **WISE** only having, in the interests of accuracy, to give up on “I” and substitute “highly debatable six counties located in the North of Ireland” might ruin the fun a bit. Oh well. ☹ ESWFATDAD just lacks a nice ring to it, though. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/106 "2003-01-10T13:29:15Z")
Calling those 6 counties “Northern Ireland” is fine, because that is what they are called. Just don’t call them “Ulster”, because that is inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/107 "2003-01-10T13:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*Calling those 6 counties “Northern Ireland” is fine, because that is what they are called. Just don’t call them “Ulster”, because that is inaccurate. \*\* Well, if you want to be _really_ picky, the northernmost part of Ireland is in the Republic. The easternmost part of Ireland is, however, in Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/108 "2003-01-10T13:35:25Z")
UDS, the name ‘the British Isles’ in a strictly geographical sense means Great Britain, Ireland, Isle of Man, etc. Great Britain is called ‘Great Britain’ because it is the largest island in this group. The Romans were the ones who gave the whole archipelago a name (obviously a Latin form of ‘the British isles’), so the term pre-dates all of the various countries that occupy them. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/109 "2003-01-10T13:40:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Cermonies \* > **Great Britain is called ‘Great Britain’ because it is the largest island in this group.** [Wrong](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_153.html). Great Britain is thus named to distinguish it from Brittany in France. > [@](#): > > **Well, if you want to be really picky, the northernmost part of Ireland is in the Republic. The easternmost part of Ireland is, however, in Northern Ireland.** Of course, but this is a terminology that is acceptable in both the Republic and the UK, so let’s not confuse matters any more than they are already (and God they’re confusing enough already)… ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/110 "2003-01-10T13:54:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Cermonies \* > \*\*The Romans were the ones who gave the whole archipelago a name (obviously a Latin form of ‘the British isles’), so the term pre-dates all of the various countries that occupy them. \*\* Perhaps so, and the name was correct at the time. Both islands were inhabited by people of Brythonic culture, and the islands were called after the people. (Hence the term is cultural in origin, not geographical.) But that rationale, obviously, no longer holds good. Events have moved on, and the meaning of the term has also moved on. In Roman times the term did not include the Channel Islands, but today it generally does, because of their political dependency on the UK. And if can be extended to include territory which becomes dependent on the UK, obviously it can be contracted to exclude territory which has ceased to be dependent on the UK. The truth is that I don’t have any very strong objections to the term, if only because there is no satisfactory alternative. I do consider it anomalous because the term “British”, used in every other sense, does had political, legal and cultural connotations - British nationality, the British government, the British Army, the British Council, the British Union of Fascists, but “anomalous” does not mean “offensive”. What bothers me is people who fail to recognise that anomaly, and who argue that, because Ireland is part of the British isles, therefore Irish people must have a British cultural identity and can properly be described as “British”. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/111 "2003-01-10T13:58:30Z")
I do indeed understand your objections, **UDS**. A NI Republican did indeed once suggest “Islands of the North Atlantic” (IONA) to me, but I reckon that would piss the Icelanders and Ionians off. Me, I favour North West European Archipelago. I’m a NWEAper, nice to meet you. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/112 "2003-01-10T14:02:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **Great Britain is thus named to distinguish it from Brittany in France.** Possibly, but there is an alternative explanation. In both Irish and Manx Gaelic (and, I _think_ in Scots Gaelic) Wales is called “Little Britain”. (Indeed, there is no other word for Wales.) Could Great Britain be so called to distinguish it from Wales? ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/113 "2003-01-10T14:11:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > \*\*Possibly, but there is an alternative explanation. In both Irish and Manx Gaelic (and, I _think_ in Scots Gaelic) Wales is called “Little Britain”. (Indeed, there is no other word for Wales.) Could Great Britain be so called to distinguish it from Wales? \*\* I thought Scottish Gaelic for Wales was **A’Chruimrigh** ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/114 "2003-01-10T14:18:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > \*\*Could Great Britain be so called to distinguish it from Wales? \*\* Maybe, though I’m guessing that since the etymology of “Britain” is from the Romans’ “Brittania”, the term “Great” is also derived from “Maximus” (or whatever the Latin ending is), rather than the Celtic languages. I may be wrong, but that would mean Cecil is, too, and that’s heresy. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Berk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c37758/32.png) [@Royal\_Berk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Berk)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/115 "2003-01-10T16:19:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \* > \*\*Is there a name, derogatory or nice, for all those who come from the British Isles (and the _Irish Isles_ if that’s not included in them)? > > That is, who are either British, Irish, Scottish or Welsh? \*\* Well, I think that the previous postings have shown what a minefield this is. So… if you really want a “name for all peoples from the UK”, your only certain option is to say “U.K. subject” (not “citizen”, that’s another problem!):rolleyes: And “all those from the British isles”? You’re far safer with the words English, Irish, Scottish or Welsh (and to show how careful you have to be, even that’s in alphabetical order!) ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/116 "2003-01-11T02:05:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Well, if you want to be really picky, the northernmost part of Ireland is in the Republic. The easternmost part of Ireland is, however, in Northern Ireland. > > Of course, but this is a terminology that is acceptable in both the Republic and the UK\*\* Just to prove that there really is no such thing as neutral terminology here, I’ll point out that “Northern Ireland” isn’t even _completely_ acceptable - republicans generally reject the term. It’s the safest thing to call the place if you’re not sure what company you’re in, though. ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/117 "2003-01-11T23:12:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lobsang \* > \*\*A person from Britain is a **Briton**. \*\* Just so. And Britons are British. ‘British’ is an adjective and a collective noun (‘the British’), not a singular noun. This is in contrast to ‘American’, in which the adjective and noun have the same form. Americans are American, but Britons are British. In some American usages Britishers are British, but in no usage are Britishes British. The British are British, but there is no such thing as a British. Okay? Agback ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/118 "2003-01-11T23:21:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > \*\*Could Great Britain be so called to distinguish it from Wales? \*\* Nope. Great Britain is the island that the English, Scottish, and Welsh mainlands are on. It is not disjoint from Wales. Regards, Agback ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/119 "2003-01-13T09:06:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > I’ll point out that “Northern Ireland” isn’t even _completely_ acceptable - republicans generally reject the term. As we have recently noticed with all the republican members of the Assembly renaming any government bodies under their control to remove the name ‘Northern Ireland’ from their title. i.e. DENI (The Dept Education for NI) became simply DE. And it (DE) now has a Gaelic logo too, which less than 5% of NI can read, according to the latest survey. Not very ‘mainstream’ educational, eh? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937/120 "2003-01-13T09:08:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Agback \* > \*\*Nope. Great Britain is the island that the English, Scottish, and Welsh mainlands are on. It is not disjoint from Wales.Agback \*\* It Great Britain doesn’t have to be _disjoint_ from Wales in order to be _distinct_ from Wales. After all, you distinguish between Connecticut and the USA, don’t you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-for-all-peoples-from-the-uk/145937.md?page=7)