# Name some books a believer considering atheism or agnosticism might consult. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 21, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911 "2010-02-21T21:26:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sco3tt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@sco3tt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sco3tt)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/21 "2010-02-24T05:03:43Z")
[The God Delusion](http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618918248) by Richard Dawkins is a worthwhile read. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/22 "2010-02-24T05:16:24Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Also, ‘Considering’ implies a decision making process. You don’t _decide_ what to believe in. That has always bugged me about religion. > > To _decide_ to believe something is to fail to understand how belief works. > > For instance, given the choice: I might not want to be an Atheist (As it happens I do), but whether I want to be one or not the fact is I am one. I am one because I happen to believe there is no God. I can’t decide to change my mind. That would be like deciding to start believing I can levitate. I understand what you’re saying, and I don’t believe anyone has ever used reason to lead them to faith. That’s not to say however the reverse cannot be true. People can chose reason and logic. It’s my impression that’s the antidote for Theism. [QUOTE=sco3tt] The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins is a worthwhile read. [/QUOTE] As an Atheist I considered that book pretty brutal, Dawkins wastes no ink and says whats what and I only think it’s convincing to the converted. ---
**Author:** ![Lethal\_Babydoll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3be4f8/32.png) [@Lethal\_Babydoll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lethal_Babydoll)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/23 "2010-02-24T15:33:19Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > :dubious: > > Explain, please? > > ETA: I’m not inviting a debate…this is the wrong forum for that. I’m just wondering what “the weirdness of atheism” might be. By “weird” i meant very unusual. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/24 "2010-02-26T23:32:24Z")
_The Mythmaker_ by Hyam Maccoby. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/25 "2010-02-26T23:43:47Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > As an Atheist I considered that book pretty brutal, Dawkins wastes no ink and says whats what and I only think it’s convincing to the converted. Agreed. I’m a big fan of RD but that particular book seems like it would only serve to further alienate Theists from RD and Atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/26 "2010-02-26T23:44:38Z")
[Evid3nc3 on youtube’s “Why I am no longer a Christian” series](http://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3#p/c/A0C3C1D163BE880A/0/mSy1-Q_BEtQ)\* gives a very in depth account of his deconversion. I think it’s fascinating, but then again, I was never a believer. Still, it gives a pretty straight-forward case for the atheist point of view from a believer’s standpoint. It’s relatively light on science and philosophy and mostly deals with the process of turning to non-belief. May be interesting to a few people. - Links to a series of videos on youtube. The one starting at that link is only the first. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/27 "2010-02-26T23:44:54Z")
> [@Lethal\_Babydoll](#): > > By “weird” i meant very unusual. Would a better word be ‘uncommon’ ? ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/28 "2010-02-27T00:39:57Z")
I also came in to recommend Ehrman’s Misquoting Jesus. Fantastic book. Any book that looks at the origins of religious texts and beliefs from a historical (as opposed to a religious) perspective is good. Other excellent books in that category include Karen Armstrong’s History of God and Friedman’s [Who Wrote the Bible](http://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353). I would steer clear of polemics like the TGD and towards more scholarly treatments of the history. ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/29 "2010-02-27T00:46:53Z")
Putting Away Childish Things by Uta Ranke-Heinemann. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/30 "2010-02-27T03:45:41Z")
I would highly recommend [_The WHYs of a Philosophical Scrivener,_](http://books.google.com/books?id=CKSPLtkG0tQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=whys+of+a+philosophical+scrivener&source=bl&ots=1KTEvo_n-P&sig=1lXPi4d912JnWmtT9diFDopRZow&hl=en&ei=bJOIS-flOM2vtgeTxOCQDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=&f=false) by [Martin Gardner.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_gardner) Gardner – a famous skeptic, debunker of pseudosciences, one of the founders of the Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP) (now known as the [Committee for Skeptical Inquiry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSICOP)) – espouses a “philosophical theism” not dependent on any religious tradition or purported revelation; and this is no airy, purely intellectual deism, either, but a faith in a personal God, whom it is worthwhile to pray to, and who can provide a personal afterlife. Gardner carefully examines the question from all angles, and acknowledges that his theism is entirely based on a “leap of faith,” and that God’s existence cannot in any sense be proven. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/31 "2010-02-27T05:13:22Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > [Evid3nc3 on youtube’s “Why I am no longer a Christian” series](http://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3#p/c/A0C3C1D163BE880A/0/mSy1-Q_BEtQ)\* gives a very in depth account of his deconversion. I think it’s fascinating, but then again, I was never a believer. > > Still, it gives a pretty straight-forward case for the atheist point of view from a believer’s standpoint. It’s relatively light on science and philosophy and mostly deals with the process of turning to non-belief. May be interesting to a few people. > > - Links to a series of videos on youtube. The one starting at that link is only the first. Very impressed! I think it got most interesting (for me) when he talked about and refered to “Similacrum” and explained the ‘experiencing God’ thing. ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbXJC6KsYWs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbXJC6KsYWs) , about 5:10) As a much younger Atheist I would get frustrated by the “But I’ve spoken to/seen God” form of statement. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/32 "2010-02-27T08:45:47Z")
A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/33 "2010-02-27T09:02:47Z")
> [@sco3tt](#): > > [The God Delusion](http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618918248) by Richard Dawkins is a worthwhile read. I disagree. I think this book is guaranteed to get believers’ or semi-believers’ backs up with its extreme antagonism. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/34 "2010-02-27T09:20:29Z")
[The Godmakers](http://www.amazon.com/God-Makers-Shocking-Expose-Believes/dp/1565077172/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267262148&sr=8-2) gives an eye opening look into Mormonism’s origins and why Mormonism itself is “weird”. I only suggest it because it shows how religion (not spirituality) can be just a huge con game. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/35 "2010-02-27T22:29:48Z")
A more indirect approach - the last nail in the coffin of the idea of man as an eternal being was _The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat_, which really underscored how much “us” is a purely physical/chemical thing as opposed to a spiritual thing. Created a lot of questions in my mind about about the nature of subjective reality and what makes a person human. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/36 "2010-02-28T06:14:58Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins is a worthwhile read. > > As an Atheist I considered that book pretty brutal, Dawkins wastes no ink and says whats what and I only think it’s convincing to the converted. I’d say that it’s worth reading if you want a better idea of what many atheists believe nowadays regarding religion and Christianity in particular. As a philosophical text though, it’s pretty poor. That’s why despite its popularity, it has been warmly received by the philosophical community (Daniel Dennett being the only notable exception that I’ve come across). ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/37 "2010-02-28T13:42:16Z")
I’d recommend _Job: A Comedy of Manners_ by Robert Heinlein. It’s in the science fiction section. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/38 "2010-02-28T14:50:31Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’d recommend _Job: A Comedy of Manners_ by Robert Heinlein. It’s in the science fiction section. Nitpick: That’s [_Job: A Comedy of Justice,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job:_A_Comedy_of_Justice) by Robert A. Heinlein. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/39 "2010-02-28T16:19:07Z")
These are a couple by [Guy Consolmagno](http://cosmicdiary.org/blogs/brother_guy_consolmagno/), both excellent reading. [Brother Astronomer: Adventures of a Vatican Scientist](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071372318/) [God’s Mechanics: How Scientists and Engineers Make Sense of Religion](http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Mechanics-Scientists-Engineers-Religion/dp/0787994669/) ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911/40 "2010-02-28T16:53:37Z")
For a thought provoking and hilarious look at religious belief try: [Letters From The Earth by Mark Twain](http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/twainlfe.htm) Also, keep in mind that atheists do not “believe there is no god” … atheists do not believe there is a god. I think this is fundamental. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-some-books-a-believer-considering-atheism-or-agnosticism-might-consult/529911.md?page=3)