# Name the oldest continuously eaten prepared foods with the same name as the modern version **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766 "2019-01-14T22:42:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/1 "2019-01-14T22:42:42Z")
By “name of a prepared food” as per the subject, I mean: a) something with a recipe that produces a finished item, rather than just a food term (“vino” for “wine”), b) isn’t just a descriptive process and name (“fried X” or “cooked Y”, etc.), c) that is known to have been around back in the in Year Whatever, such that d) if you teleported someone from that era to the present day, dropped a plate of the stuff in front of him/her, and said “have some X” using the modern day term, their reaction would be “OK” instead of “what are you talking about?” or “how is THIS what you call X?”. In this context a location based name would count, but would have to have retained the exact same meaning going back N years for my reckoning. So for example, the term “fan4” (traditional Chinese/Han character of “飯”) has been used for cooked rice for millenia, and “炒飯” (“fried rice”) surely has been eaten for nearly as long; but a specific and very common dish of [Yangzhou Fried Rice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangzhou_fried_rice) (“揚州炒飯”) has a documented history that only goes back to the late 18th Century, even though surely they were eating some kind of fried rice in Yangzhou, China well before that. The best example I can think of so far is the widespread use of a derivative of the Latin name for a kind of primarily pork sausage eaten during Ancient Roman times, “lucanica”, with mention as far back 2,000 years in the Roman cookbook of Apicius. This name has continued to the present day with recognizable cognates in former Roman Empire territories such as the modern Italian “luganega”, Greek “loukaniko”, Portuguese “linguiça”, Spanish “longaniza”, Bulgarian “lukanka”, and even Arabic “laqāniq”. They are all somewhat different in recipe from each other, and some include more than just pork, but they’re all some form of smoked and spiced sausage where I am pretty sure if you dropped one in front of Cicero and identified it by its spoken local name, he’d both understand and agree with the name for what he was eating. Although maybe with a remark along the lines of a “Chicago versus New York Pizza” type of thing. Any more like that? “Pizza” has ancient roots as a word, related to modern day “pita” for flat, leavened bread, but I think our modern version of what “pizza” is (baked with cheese, garlic, usually sauce, etc., on top) would be unrecognizable to the ancients. ---
**Author:** ![adhemar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@adhemar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhemar)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/2 "2019-01-14T22:53:45Z")
a book of recipes has just been found that dates back to 1140at Durham Cathedral. it has a recipe for “hen in winter” which appears to be a seasonal variation using ingredients normally found in winter, garlic, pepper and sage. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/3 "2019-01-14T22:55:30Z")
Bread. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/4 "2019-01-14T23:41:38Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Bread. Please reread the OP 🙂 Not a simple food term like “cooked rice”, or “bread”, but something like “Challah bread” would count. How old is that term and has it been consistently the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/5 "2019-01-14T23:55:03Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Please reread the OP 🙂 Not a simple food term like “cooked rice”, or “bread”, but something like “Challah bread” would count. How old is that term and has it been consistently the same thing? Bread is hardly simple. But “Matzo” shows up in the Old Testament. The recipe hasn’t changed. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/6 "2019-01-14T23:57:27Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Please reread the OP 🙂 Not a simple food term like “cooked rice”, or “bread”, but something like “Challah bread” would count. How old is that term and has it been consistently the same thing? Ok, any kind of bread. Do you WANT recipes? There are quite a few. I wanted to put ‘Egg’ but I wasn’t sure what came first, the chicken or the egg:) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/7 "2019-01-14T23:59:07Z")
[Century Eggs have basically been unchanged since at least the Ming Dynasty.](http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20151208-the-rotten-egg-people-love-to-eat) ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/8 "2019-01-15T00:29:50Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Bread is hardly simple. > > But “Matzo” shows up in the Old Testament. The recipe hasn’t changed. So that’s the (Ancient) Hebrew term for it? I should’ve guesed that! ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/9 "2019-01-15T01:15:47Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Ok, any kind of bread. Do you WANT recipes? There are quite a few. > I wanted to put ‘Egg’ but I wasn’t sure what came first, the chicken or the egg:) The OP is asking not just for a food, but for the NAME of a food. Obviously any English word is not going to be in the running since the English language is only about 1000 years old. “Bread” is a pretty old word in English, although it wasn’t originally the usual word for what we call “bread”. The OED’s first citation for the word is from 950 AD. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/10 "2019-01-15T01:33:16Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > So that’s the (Ancient) Hebrew term for it? I should’ve guesed that! Yes. And it refers to a very specific recipe that’s estimated as being 2700 years old. If you took someone from that era and said “matzo,” she’d know exactly what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/11 "2019-01-15T01:51:43Z")
I think, maybe I don’t understand. When the Neanderthal grunted ‘ugh’ at the pretty red berries, that was his term for them. If this is a linguistic excercise, I bow out. If it’s just trying to figure out what was the first prepared food we have to go back to the discovery of fire. I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/12 "2019-01-15T02:11:45Z")
Frosted Mini Wheats. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/13 "2019-01-15T04:03:57Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Frosted Mini Wheats. Obviously not. Prior to the eighteenth century, when most homes lacked refrigerators, frosted mini-wheats were valued for their ability to retain cold (“frost”) even when they were removed from the ice-caves where they grew. Adding them to boiled porridge is the origin of the term “cold cereal.” It’s not until the invention of the nuclear refrigerator in the 1950s that they became obsolete, and Kelloggs began marketing that nasty sugar-frosting version of the ancient treat. Same name, but totally different product. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/14 "2019-01-15T04:14:09Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [Century Eggs have basically been unchanged since at least the Ming Dynasty.](http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20151208-the-rotten-egg-people-love-to-eat) Along those lines, looks like [kimchi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchi#History)was probably around in 37 AD. It didn’t become spicy until the 17th century. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/15 "2019-01-15T04:15:10Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > The best example I can think of so far is the widespread use of a derivative of the Latin name… I’m guessing that something Greek or Chinese is likely to be a strong candidate, because of the continuity of culture & language. Fasolada (bean soup) is supposed to have been around since Ancient Greece. I’ve found internet articles vaguely claiming it’s mentioned in old texts, but no proper references, not clear if the name itself is ancient. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/16 "2019-01-15T04:19:13Z")
Wikipedia strikes again… > **[List of ancient dishes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_dishes)** > > This is a list of ancient dishes, prepared foods and beverages that have been recorded as originating during ancient history. The span of recorded history is roughly 5,000 years, beginning with Sumerian cuneiform script, the oldest discovered form of coherent writing from the protoliterate period around 3,000 to 2,900 years BCE.\[a\] > Ancient history can be defined as occurring from the beginning of recorded human history to: > Although the end date of ancient history is disputed, some Western sc... Not focused on exact names, but there must be some candidates here. Baobaofan (rice dish) dating to 1000 BCE looks like a good start. Characters will be the same, although ancient pronunciation will not have been identical of course. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/17 "2019-01-15T04:24:39Z")
Here’s another one, Papadzules - from Mayan cuisine. > **[Papadzules](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papadzules)** > > Papadzules (Spanish pronunciation: \[papaˈtsules\]; Mexican Spanish, from Mayan \[papatsʼuːles\]) is a traditional dish from the Yucatán Peninsula resembling enchiladas. In its simplest form it consists of corn tortillas dipped in a sauce of pepita (pumpkin seeds) filled with hard-boiled eggs, and garnished with a cooked tomato-pepper sauce. > Two theories exist about the origin of the name. Diana Kennedy says it derives from a phrase meaning "food of the lords" because this dish was reportedly fed to... ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/18 "2019-01-15T05:20:59Z")
I think you need to know how to make bread before you can think of noodles of any kind. They all, including rice, come from grain. But to make bread you need yeast. Beer brewing is probably older than bread, or rising breads, anyway. ETA. I know rice IS a grain, but you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/19 "2019-01-15T05:25:43Z")
Challah also appears in Numbers in the Old Testament. The problem with asking for an unchanged name is that despite what scholars claim, no one can prove with certainty that our pronunciation of ancient words is true to the original. Add in regional dialects and foreign influence and the task is insurmountable. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766/20 "2019-01-15T05:45:10Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > By “name of a prepared food” as per the subject, I mean: > > So for example, the term “fan4” (traditional Chinese/Han character of “飯”) has been used for cooked rice for millenia, and “炒飯” (“fried rice”) surely has been eaten for nearly as long; but a specific and very common dish of [Yangzhou Fried Rice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangzhou_fried_rice) (“揚州炒飯”) has a documented history that only goes back to the late 18th Century, even though surely they were eating some kind of fried rice in Yangzhou, China well before that. Since rice, like most grains and starches is primarily eaten to bulk up a meal (reducing the need to consume more meat and vegetables), I suspect that fried rice may well have originated with Yi Bingshou as he was wealthy and could afford the luxury of it. I find that I and others can consume more fried rice than if the same amount of ingredients were served separately with plain rice. There’s something about mixing flavors with grains and starches that excites the taste buds and increases appetites. How much jelly and bread could you eat separately, versus jelly spread on bread? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-oldest-continuously-eaten-prepared-foods-with-the-same-name-as-the-modern-version/827766.md?page=2)