# Name usages: given or sur-? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 11, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698 "2019-12-11T05:29:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/21 "2019-12-11T21:15:29Z")
I’ve worked in small groups that had an inordinate number of engineers with my same first name. We all used last names or we’d never know who was talking to whom. In my current job we still do that with common first names. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/22 "2019-12-11T21:16:16Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > I hadn’t heard of this, but it was a show on the BBC > [A Bit of Fry & Laurie - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bit_of_Fry_%26_Laurie) I think that the OP mentioned “A Bit of Fry and Laurie” (which, as you note, was an English show, not a US show) as a way to hint at the US show he had been watching. And, in the Wikipedia entry for _[House](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(TV_series))_: > [@](#): > > At first, the producers were looking for a “quintessentially American person” to play the role of House. Bryan Singer in particular felt there was no way he was going to hire a non-American actor for the role. At the time of the casting session, actor Hugh Laurie was in Namibia filming the movie Flight of the Phoenix. He assembled an audition tape in a hotel bathroom, the only place with enough light, and apologized for its appearance (which Singer compared to a “bin Laden video”). Laurie improvised, using an umbrella for a cane. Singer was very impressed by his performance and commented on how well the “American actor” was able to grasp the character. Singer was not aware that Laurie was English, due to his convincing American accent. Laurie credits the accent to “a misspent youth [watching] too much TV and too many movies”. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/23 "2019-12-12T01:38:44Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I think that the OP mentioned “A Bit of Fry and Laurie” (which, as you note, was an English show, not a US show) as a way to hint at the US show he had been watching. > > And, in the Wikipedia entry for _[House](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(TV_series))_: I think I only watched 1 episode of House, but I know the patient didn’t have Lupus. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/24 "2019-12-12T02:54:42Z")
In the US military, unless you are in an informal setting and very good friends with someone, he is addressed by last name only; it’s right there on his uniform. In non-informal settings, his rank, if it is higher than yours, is used, as in “Captain Yossarian,” “Colonel Cathcart,” “General Dreedle.” When you become acquainted with someone using his last name only, it can be hard to switch to first name if you get friendlier. He’s always been Smith, now you have to force yourself to call him Bob. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/25 "2019-12-12T03:03:17Z")
I’ve worked in several teams where some people were addressed by firstname and some by surname: when you have several people with identical firstnames, moving to surnames for them is just the easiest option. In some teams and when it was just us (no clients present) we’d sometimes use the function: “Finance, I need to go over some stuff with you when you’ve got the time.” “Sure thing, Production :D” Recently I had a situation at work (UK) where the boss told me to include in an email a bunch of people that I hadn’t even met. I took pen and paper and said “I need complete names, please”. Turns out the one he’d called “Clyde” appears in company listings as “Raymond C. [surname]”, good think I’d asked! ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/26 "2019-12-12T03:36:14Z")
Whatever the customs are, do they tend to be gender-specific? ISTM that the practice of addressing others by surname only is largely a male thang, and much more rare among females (except, perhaps, in the military). ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/27 "2019-12-12T20:21:50Z")
We have one guy who is often called by his last name, because we used to work under a boss with the same first name, and the boss was the one known by that. Persons who came in after that boss left are more likely to call him by his first name. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/28 "2019-12-12T20:37:09Z")
In my first job in 1979, everybody was on a first name basis up a couple of levels of management. If I talked to a V.P. it was always Mr. Smith. I did have one boss who was an older guy (mid-50s) who everybody called Mr. Davis. I don’t know why this one guy got this treatment; I think maybe because he was the oldest guy in this first-line management position, so it was kind of mercy-respect. In older times, calling someone by their given name was considered overly familiar until you had been invited to do so. I remember seeing a movie or maybe TV show from the 1940/50s where there was a character named, let’s say, Tom Patterson. Another man called him Tom, and he replied gruffly, “My name is Patterson.” ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/29 "2019-12-12T21:48:44Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > In older times, calling someone by their given name was considered overly familiar until you had been invited to do so. I remember seeing a movie or maybe TV show from the 1940/50s where there was a character named, let’s say, Tom Patterson. Another man called him Tom, and he replied gruffly, “My name is Patterson.” I remember an early episode of _Law & Order_ where Ben Stone (who was always a bit of a prig) said, “In polite society, you don’t call someone by their first name unless they give you permission. I didn’t.” ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/30 "2019-12-13T05:35:26Z")
When I worked in newsrooms, pretty much everybody called me by my last name (no Ms., just my last name), and I called some of them by their last names and maybe some of them by their first names. There was one other woman in the newsroom at the time and everybody called her by her first name. I don’t even remember her last name. Note that some of us had come from other places where we’d worked together before; she hadn’t. But this was true of all the newsrooms I worked in. We didn’t address each other by name all that often, as people don’t. Only if you needed to get someone’s attention. Other places it’s been mostly first names all around except for the Head Guy, who would be a Mr. Lastname, or sometimes just Lastname, and that’s how everybody would refer to him. For some reasonit was always a guy. When I was a telephone installer we were all called by, and addressed each other as, Lastname. When we signed off on a completed job it was initials only. When I had a job typically held by a woman (legal assistant etc.) I was called by my first name. I pretty much spent my career avoiding those jobs or trying to, but I had a few. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/31 "2019-12-13T09:07:37Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Whatever the customs are, do they tend to be gender-specific? ISTM that the practice of addressing others by surname only is largely a male thang, and much more rare among females (except, perhaps, in the military). That is often so in the US, but not so in Europe. I’ve mentioned before that I found it a glaring tell during the last US presidential election: if an article called the Democratic candidate “Hillary”, it was invariably sourced from the US. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698/32 "2019-12-13T11:54:10Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Just to clarify: a “given name” is someone’s first name? > > Sorry, grew up just hearing them called _first_ and _last_ names. Never quite clear when I hear sur- or the really confusing term “Christian name”. Why would one of your names not be Christian? And does it apply to Jewish names? Do other religions use the term? > ~ ~ ~ > … “Given name” and “family name” are more precise than “first name” and “last name” because there are cultures that put them in a different order (e.g., Hungarian, Japanese, Chinese). For Icelandic people, you’d say “given name” and “patronymic” because they don’t use family names. For Russians, you’d say “given name,” “patronymic,” and “family name,” because they use all three. In some international documents they practice is to put family names in all caps so you don’t have to guess based on ordering. There are also international documents that always put family name first to ease alphabetization. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-usages-given-or-sur/844698.md?page=1)