# Name your favourite movie - but it has to pass the test! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880 "2012-02-15T02:14:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/1 "2012-02-15T02:14:14Z")
Meaning, the Bechdel test. The Bechdel test was “invented” in 1985, in a comic strip named _Dykes to Watch Out For_ by Alison Bechdel: [The Rule](http://www.flickr.com/photos/zizyphus/34585797/lightbox/) (safe for work). Short version: [ol] [li]The movie has to have at least two women in it[/li][li]Who talk to each other[/li][li]About something besides a man.[/li][/ol] A popular addition to those rules, that I will suggest for this thread: [ul] [li]The women must be “named” characters (the characters in the movie have a name that the audience finds out during the course of the movie.)[/li][/ul] And finally, if you could describe at least one of the Bechdel-test qualifying conversations in the movie, that would be great. (Please note that a movie [doesn’t need to be a feminist movie to pass the Bechdel test](http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/indicator/)). Are you able to name your top “Bechdel list” movie off the top of your head? The one I came up with after a few minutes of thinking was [Secrets and Lies](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117589/). The conversation that stayed in my memory: an adopted woman meets her mother for the first time, and they have a conversation in a café upon their first meeting. The first meeting has several surprises in store for both of them. Your turn. It’s more challenging if you do it from memory without resorting to research, but for those who need a little help, here is [a list of movies that supposedly pass the Bechdel test](http://bechdeltest.com/?list=all). ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/2 "2012-02-15T02:18:47Z")
All About Eve. ETA, I did that without looking at the list. I was going to say the Wizard of Oz (just trying to come up with something at that point) also, but I couldn’t think of a scene where they weren’t talking about the Wizard. However, I see it’s on the list, so I would have been okay. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/3 "2012-02-15T02:19:00Z")
Kill Bill (first thing I thought of, may not actually be my favorite of them) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/4 "2012-02-15T02:29:44Z")
Clue ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/5 "2012-02-15T02:32:47Z")
Interesting. My favorite movies generally don’t pass the test. In fact, a lot of my favorite movies don’t even have any women in them (**Sleuth, The Thing (1982), Flight of the Phoenix**). Of those that do, most don’t have two women who talk to each other. Of my favorites, I think **Spartacus** has a brief dialogue between the two women at the gladiator fight at Lentulus Bataiatus’. That’s about it. **The Lion in Winter** has at least one scene between Queen Eleanor and Alis. I notice that Spartacus is listed, but Lion in Winter isn’t listed on the Bechdel page cited above. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/6 "2012-02-15T02:36:32Z")
Best In Show ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/7 "2012-02-15T02:38:13Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > **The Lion in Winter** has at least one scene between Queen Eleanor and Alis. I notice that Spartacus is listed, but Lion in Winter isn’t listed on the Bechdel page cited above. Alis is the king’s mistress, right? Isn’t the conversation between the two of them about the king? ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/8 "2012-02-15T02:40:45Z")
**The Wizard of Oz**. they don’t talk much about men, but they do talk an awful lot about shoes… ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/9 "2012-02-15T02:41:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Alis is the king’s mistress, right? Isn’t the conversation between the two of them about the king? I don’t recall --it’s been too long. But I think they converse more than once, and about other things (Eleanor raised Alais) ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/10 "2012-02-15T02:55:55Z")
Well rats, I guess I’m not going to be able to watch any of my favorite movies with Alison Bechdel. I’m absolutely heartbroken. How will I ever go on living? ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/11 "2012-02-15T03:24:36Z")
Mulholland Dr. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/12 "2012-02-15T03:25:27Z")
Spirited Away – the central character (Sen/Chihiro) is female, and spends a lot of time talking with other major female characters, e.g., Yubaba, Zeniba and Lin. They hardly ever talk about men, unless you count Chihiro’s father (who is a pig for most of the story) and Haku (who is really a river god). ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/13 "2012-02-15T03:31:10Z")
_Babette’s Feast_ is great. Haven’t seen it in yoinks though. Off the list, my fave is probably _Grand Hotel_. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/14 "2012-02-15T03:41:29Z")
After reading the caveat I was doubtful, but _ **Aliens** _ I think still passes the test. 😃 Does a 10 year old girl count as a ‘woman’ for the purposes of the test? Even without Ripley and Newt’s chats, Vasquez and Ferro chatted briefly on the Sulaco about what Ripley was doing there. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/15 "2012-02-15T03:46:21Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Well rats, I guess I’m not going to be able to watch any of my favorite movies with Alison Bechdel. > > I’m absolutely heartbroken. How will I ever go on living? What makes you think that Ms. Bechdel refuses to go see movies that fail the test? My understanding is that the rule exists to shine a spotlight on a cinematic blindspot our society has and not to be a metric by which we judge a movie’s worth as an artistic endeavor. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/16 "2012-02-15T04:05:44Z")
Yeah, I was going to mention _Aliens_, also, but I thought there was a conversation between Ripley and Vasquez. I might be mistaken, though. And **Giles** reminds me that _Princess Mononoke_ also passes the test. Thinking about some more possibilities… There’s probably a conversation between Hermione and McGonnagal in one of the Harry Potter movies. There almost has to be something in the X-Men movies. Was there any dialog between Sif and Natalie Portman’s character in Thor? I can’t remember, but if there was, it was probably about the giant animated suit of armor blasting the town, which I don’t think really qualifies as a “man”. Elizabeth and Tia Dalma talk some in the second and third Pirates movie, I think… Ooh, and all of the Narnia movies qualify, if we consider Susan and Lucy “women”. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/17 "2012-02-15T04:08:04Z")
I just looked through a list of my favorite movies and only found two which might pass this test: _Carrie_ (1976, U.S., dir. Brian De Palma) _My Brilliant Career_ (1979, Australia, dir. Gillian Armstrong) The problem is that it’s been a long time since I’ve seen them and I don’t remember now all the conversations in them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/18 "2012-02-15T04:08:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, I was going to mention _Aliens_, also, but I thought there was a conversation between Ripley and Vasquez. I might be mistaken, though. There’s also this classic exchange between two powerful female characters in the film: Ripley: Get away from her, you bitch! Alien Queen: Hiss! Drool! ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/19 "2012-02-15T04:13:31Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What makes you think that Ms. Bechdel refuses to go see movies that fail the test? My understanding is that the rule exists to shine a spotlight on a cinematic blindspot our society has and not to be a metric by which we judge a movie’s worth as an artistic endeavor. Personally, I think the rule itself has a blindspot. The percentage of woman-centric movies that would fail the reverse test – a scene with two men who talk about something other than a woman – is probably the same as the percentage of movies that fail the original test. ---
**Author:** ![missinformation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@missinformation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missinformation)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/20 "2012-02-15T04:14:26Z")
Come See The Paradise [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880.md?page=2)