# Name your favourite movie - but it has to pass the test! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880 "2012-02-15T02:14:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![koeeoaddi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/koeeoaddi/32/408_2.png) [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/21 "2012-02-15T04:16:45Z")
Sense and Sensibility and Persuasion ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/22 "2012-02-15T04:25:22Z")
**Empire Records**. Besides talking about boys, they talk about hating the man, suicide, perfectionism, and drug abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/23 "2012-02-15T04:28:46Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Personally, I think the rule itself has a blindspot. The percentage of woman-centric movies that would fail the reverse test – a scene with two men who talk about something other than a woman – is probably the same as the percentage of movies that fail the original test. Perhaps. But that’s irrelevant. There is no shortage of male characters in film who are not identified through their relationship to a woman. Women don’t fare as well. One of the articles about the rule talks about two women in The Godfather who are credited as X’s Wife and Y’s Wife. These are not women that exist as full people in the way Corleone and the other men do. They’re adornments to further fill out the male characters. The rule attempts to give objective criteria for determining how developed female characters are in any given movie and not to protest for equal opportunity casting. A reverse Bechdel would be useless because we already expect our men to be strong and well-developed characters. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/24 "2012-02-15T04:33:20Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Personally, I think the rule itself has a blindspot. The percentage of woman-centric movies that would fail the reverse test – a scene with two men who talk about something other than a woman – is probably the same as the percentage of movies that fail the original test. I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. You are comparing “woman-centric” movies with movies in general (“woman-centric” movies would fail the reverse test as much as _all_ movies fail the original)? Wouldn’t that mean you consider a default movie to be “man-centric”? Also, Ghost World would be pretty far up my list. Not as high as Kill Bill though. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/25 "2012-02-15T04:33:39Z")
My number one, **Shawshank Redemption** clearly fails, since I think there’s only one woman in the entire movie, the bank teller. Pretty sure my number two **Contact** passes, since it stars a woman who I’m fairly certain talks to other women in the movie. (Although they are talking about aliens that could possibly be men) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/26 "2012-02-15T04:34:30Z")
**The Right Stuff** – Annie Glenn and Trudy Cooper have a conversation about Annie not wanting the TV news crews to come into her house because she’s self-conscious about her stutter. When she gets her husband on the phone he backs her up. (Possible disqualification; Vice President Johnson wants to come in with the TV crews so he can be seen consoling Mrs. Glenn on John’s scrubbed launch, so they are in some sense discussing a male character.) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/27 "2012-02-15T04:36:52Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. You are comparing “woman-centric” movies with movies in general (“woman-centric” movies would fail the reverse test as much as _all_ movies fail the original)? I’m saying that chick flicks are just as bad, only in the opposite direction. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/28 "2012-02-15T04:38:05Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Personally, I think the rule itself has a blindspot. The percentage of woman-centric movies that would fail the reverse test – a scene with two men who talk about something other than a woman – is probably the same as the percentage of movies that fail the original test. I don’t think that’s a blindspot at all - to the contrary, that’s precisely the inequity the test is meant to highlight. A film that features men who exist primarily in relation to a woman is a “woman centric” film. The reverse, however, is not a “man centric” movie. It’s just a movie. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/29 "2012-02-15T04:44:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The reverse, however, is not a “man centric” movie. It’s just a movie. Largely because many of the topics that translate well onto the big screen are man-centric. EDIT: Color me completely unsurprised that women shine on the small screen. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/30 "2012-02-15T04:51:48Z")
Let’s not forget that the list has nearly 3000 movies on it and I see a lot of smiley faces (meaning the movie meets the qualifications…something I missed the first time I glanced at it, I thought they all did), so it’s not that someone found some big Hollywood secret here. It’s not like someone said “Gee, have you have noticed that there’s almost no movies where woman talk about something other then men” and they could only come up with 20 or 30 movies that fit the qualifications. I have to wonder if someone thought (or hoped, to prove a point) they wouldn’t be able to find many movies when they started this list. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/31 "2012-02-15T05:05:56Z")
My favorite movie is “Rear Window” and there’s at least one conversation between Liza and Stella discussing how a certain (female) body might be buried. Granted, the conversation might refer to the husband of said female body - not 100% sure. Anyway, strikes me as kind of an arbitrary test! ---
**Author:** ![Monkey\_Chews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@Monkey\_Chews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monkey_Chews)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/32 "2012-02-15T05:22:36Z")
My favourite movie is “The Color Purple”, which passes with flying colours, mostly purple. My next favourite movies are probably the Lord Of The Rings films, which, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/33 "2012-02-15T05:38:45Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Interesting. My favorite movies generally don’t pass the test… Nor do mine, with three exceptions: Helen Parr and Edna Mode discuss the supercostumes which Edna has designed (although their conversation eventually turns to Helen’s husband Bob) in _The Incredibles_. The guitar-playing stewardess, the sick little girl and her mom talk together in _Airplane!_ The Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio (sp?) character and the smartass black sub driver talk briefly over the radio in _The Abyss_. However, _Breaker Morant, Limitless, The Hidden, Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan, Dark City, Trading Places, Pride & Prejudice, Cinema Paradiso, Memento, Groundhog Day, Notorious_ and _Casablanca_ don’t pass the test, I think, and they’re my favorite movies. One of the worst Star Trek movies, _Insurrection_, oddly enough does pass the test: Counselor Troi and Dr. Crusher discuss their rejuvenation on the alien planet, including their boobs firming up! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/34 "2012-02-15T05:42:22Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Largely because many of the topics that translate well onto the big screen are man-centric. I find that to be a highly dubious assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Chef\_Troy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/35 "2012-02-15T05:43:17Z")
Yay! My favorite movie, [Passion Fish](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105107/), passes handily. May-Alice (Mary McDonnell) and Chantelle (Alfre Woodard) have a lot of conversations that aren’t about men (as well as several that are). Non-man topics include May-Alice’s drinking problem, the importance of knowing how to cook if you’re going to live in Louisiana, and many more. There are also conversations between May-Alice and the Robicheaux sisters (classmates from her youth) about a memorable sleepover, and May-Alice and a collection of her former fellow soap-opera actresses talk about a one-line part one of them had in a sci-fi movie (“I didn’t ask for the anal probe.”). Oh, and between May-Alice and Chantelle’s daughter, about alligators. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/36 "2012-02-15T06:03:35Z")
I had forgotten about _The Incredibles_ until I checked the list on that page. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/37 "2012-02-15T06:08:57Z")
“Bend it like Beckham” is the first to spring to mind. I didn’t check its position on the list, but they sure do talk about soccer a lot. “Bring It On” works too. (what? shut up, I like it! :D) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/38 "2012-02-15T06:35:13Z")
The most obvious: 1939’s “The Women.” Everyone in the cast (including animals) is female, and they talk about men . . . among many other things. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/39 "2012-02-15T06:35:34Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Spirited Away – the central character (Sen/Chihiro) is female, and spends a lot of time talking with other major female characters, e.g., Yubaba, Zeniba and Lin. They hardly ever talk about men, unless you count Chihiro’s father (who is a pig for most of the story) and Haku (who is really a river god). This was my answer (with _Aliens_ as a runner-up, whatever that combination may say about my tastes). ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/40 "2012-02-15T06:54:23Z")
This Bechdel Test eliminates _way_ more movies than I would have guessed. I started thinking about some of my favorite movies: My first thought was **Last of the Mohicans**. It has two women, Alice and Cora Munro, but I can’t remember them having a conversation with each other. They exchange bits of dialogue, but I don’t remember anything I would call a conversation. **Breaking Away** , another favorite, doesn’t qualify. More than two female characters, but they don’t talk to each other. **Doctor Zhivago** has several female characters, but the only conversations between them seem to be about men. I don’t remember any substantive conversations between women in **The Godfather**. Then I thought about **Fargo** , but even there, the only conversations between women are about men. **Blade Runner** , no female conversations there. **The Thing** , no women at all. **The Station Agent** , no all-female conversations. **Goodfellas** , no. **Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind** , no. **No Country for Old Men** , no. **In Bruges** , no. So I guess I’m gonna say **Alien**. There are definitely some qualifying conversations there. (Brief and to the point, but they’re in there.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880.md?page=3)