# Name your favourite movie - but it has to pass the test! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880 "2012-02-15T02:14:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/61 "2012-02-15T15:45:50Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Let’s not forget that the list has nearly 3000 movies on it and I see a lot of smiley faces (meaning the movie meets the qualifications…something I missed the first time I glanced at it, I thought they all did), so it’s not that someone found some big Hollywood secret here. It’s not like someone said “Gee, have you have noticed that there’s almost no movies where woman talk about something other then men” and they could only come up with 20 or 30 movies that fit the qualifications. I have to wonder if someone thought (or hoped, to prove a point) they wouldn’t be able to find many movies when they started this list. But there are also a lot of films listed without smiley faces, and more than a few with “dubious” faces where the film passes depending on how you define a conversation and what the topic is about. Also I’m guessing if you made a list of films that passed the reverse-Bechdel test (where two men talk to each other about something other than a woman) there would be a lot more films that pass that test. It’s not the most important issue of today, but it would be nice if women were better represented in films, rather than just being the wife/mother/sister/assistant/supporting character to the man who is the main character in the movie. > [@Chronos](#): > > \ > Was there any dialog between Sif and Natalie Portman’s character in Thor? I can’t remember, but if there was, it was probably about the giant animated suit of armor blasting the town, which I don’t think really qualifies as a “man”. I don’t remember if there’s dialogue between Sif and Natalie Portman, but there was between Portman and her grad student assistant Kat Dennings about the sciencey astronomy thing Portman was researching that ended up being the portal Thor came through and I think about other stuff too. And this isn’t strictly Bechdel test related, but once Thor came along, her character’s life didn’t start revolving around him like what happens in many action movies where the main woman meets the main character. Her research is still very important to her and Thor actually helps her out by retrieving her notebook with her research from the government. I really appreciated that. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/62 "2012-02-15T15:47:25Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > A few movies that I’ve enjoyed that pass the Bechdal test: The Wiz, Monster, Bridesmaids, Eve’s Bayou, Gummo, Set It Off. Do those movies pass the reverse test? I think what it comes down to is risk taking. Movie drama is often about taking risks. As a general rule, men are risk takers while women tend to avoid risk. At least the type of risk that translates to the big screen. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/63 "2012-02-15T16:01:56Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Do those movies pass the reverse test? Are you asking do the men in these movies talk to other men about subjects other women? As others have pointed out, this question misses the point of the discussion. I can think of tons of movies in which men dialogue with one another about all kinds of subjects. At least Gummo and The Wiz pass the “reverse test”, but I’m not sure that Bridesmaids or Eve’s Bayou do. Can you explain why you think this matters? > [@](#): > > I think what it comes down to is risk taking. Movie drama is often about taking risks. As a general rule, men are risk takers while women tend to avoid risk. At least the type of risk that translates to the big screen. What kind of risk taking behavior is plausible for men but implausible for women? ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/64 "2012-02-15T16:09:28Z")
I was going to say Thelma and Louise too but the whole thing is started off by something a man does. And I can’t think of any conversation they have that isn’t either to a man or about a man. Since this came up recently in another thread - The Hunger ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/65 "2012-02-15T16:12:34Z")
_Slave Girls From Beyond Infinity_ – the two female leads have many conversations not about men, mostly about escaping from their various predicaments. _Taur and the Amazon Women_ – This movie is chock full of named female characters having conversations not about men. A qualifying scene: Gablegore tries to suck up to Tamar after she’s captured by the evil queen’s henchwomen, but Tamar rejects her. _Barbarian Queen_ has a scene in which the queen and her trusted female warriors discuss the mental conditionof the queen’s sister. There are other qualifying scenes as well, this one just comes to mind first. _House Bunny_ although not a favorite, qualifies, as there are conversations between the sorority sisters on how they are going to save their sorority. Amusing, in that for the bulk of the movie Anna Faris’ character teaches the sorority sisters how to be more attractive to men. _Debbie Does Dallas_ qualifies in much the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/66 "2012-02-15T16:14:58Z")
Hmm, my favorite movies: **High Noon** : Nope, because Helen Ramirez and Amy Fowler only talk about Will Kane **Die Hard** : Nope, because the conversations between Holly and her secretary are nearly all about the terrorists, who are men **Breakfast at Tiffany’s** : Nope, I don’t know that Holly ever talks to another woman in the whole film, at least not to have a conversation **Blow Dry** : Yes! Shelly and Saundra talk about a lot of stuff, mostly cancer and hair stuff ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/67 "2012-02-15T16:15:49Z")
It is extremely depressing that a gender that makes up half of all humanity is so underrepresented in one of the most popular forms of human entertainment. That the Bechdal test is such an extremely low bar and yet so few great movies are able to pass it says something deeply sad about the role that women play in Hollywood and how far we still need to go in terms of gender equality. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/68 "2012-02-15T16:21:34Z")
In an attempt to come up with smart-ass answers I came up with 2. _Frida_ and _Emmanuel_. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/69 "2012-02-15T17:31:41Z")
Of my favourites that pass: **True Grit** (2010) - Mattie has a couple short conversations with Mrs Floyd, the boarding house landlady. Not a strong pass in terms of the test, but you certainly couldn’t accuse that film of gender bias. **Amadeus** - Barely qualifies, but Constanze briefly speaks to the maid/spy Lorl. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/70 "2012-02-15T17:38:28Z")
Also, it’s not just regular or “man-centric” movies that fail the test. Scanning through the list, from just the past five years there were several “chick flick” films that failed or were dubious, including P.S. I Love You, The Proposal, Dear John, Music and Lyrics, 500 Days of Summer, Nick and Nora’s Infinite Playlist, and It’s Complicated. No Strings Attached apparently passes because the women have one conversation about periods, which means it doesn’t fail the test but it does get a major eye roll from me. Also while there’s not a lot of films with female action stars, the few that there are often fail. The Resident Evil films all pass, but Haywire, Wanted, Ultraviolet, and both Lara Croft movies fail. The first Underworld movie barely passes since there’s two sentences exchanged between two women characters. It’s bad enough when so many “man-centric” movies fail. But it’s annoying that not even all movies aimed at women pass. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/71 "2012-02-15T17:42:00Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > _Seems Like Old Times_ - Goldie Hawn and her cook/housekeeper, Aurora, have conversations about the dogs (some are male - is that disqualifying?), about household issues, and about Aurora going to the doctor to get her feet scraped. OK, it’s not my \*favorite \*movie, but I like it enough to rewatch it on occasion… Not exactly my very favorite, but Private Benjamin certainly has conversations with lots of other women about lots of stuff other than men. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/72 "2012-02-15T17:45:08Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Also while there’s not a lot of films with female action stars, the few that there are often fail. The Resident Evil films all pass, but Haywire, Wanted, Ultraviolet, and both Lara Croft movies fail. The first Underworld movie barely passes since there’s two sentences exchanged between two women characters. **Salt** , which I liked a lot, also fails. The protagonist was the only female character in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/73 "2012-02-15T18:10:35Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I think what it comes down to is risk taking. Movie drama is often about taking risks. As a general rule, men are risk takers while women tend to avoid risk. At least the type of risk that translates to the big screen. This rationalization is starting to sound kind of desperate. Sure, there are **some** contributing reasons of the type you describe why movies are much more about men than about women (except for women portrayed in relation to men). But mostly, “what it comes down to” is traditional gender inequality in society and its longstanding reflection in works of art and entertainment. There’s a traditional bias in favor of men being more important or more interesting as characters than women simply by virtue of their being men, no matter what it is they happen to be doing. Yes, we’d expect movies about historical military adventures and the like to be mostly about men, but all the other types of movies are mostly about men too (although the gender imbalance is significantly less pronounced in those cases). A movie about two people talking over dinner (_My Dinner with Andre_)? Men. A movie about the life of a poet (_Wilde_, _Shakespeare in Love_, _Bright Star_)? Men. A movie about an ordinary, non-adventurous sort of person who through no desire of their own gets caught up in a life-threatening and life-altering catastrophe (_Cast Away_, _Fearless_, _War of the Worlds_)? Men. In pretty much whatever genre of movie you care to name, the main characters are more likely to be men than women, and the male characters tend to be more fully developed as independent personalities than the female ones. There’s really no good way to explain this without admitting the pervasive influence of historical gender bias throughout society as at least one of the major causal factors. By the way, my own favorite Bechdel-qualifying film is _Serafine_. And considering that it’s a movie about a middle-aged female virgin painter and housekeeper who used to work in a convent and who ends up in a women’s lunatic asylum, it’s fucking INCREDIBLE how close it comes to **FAILING** the Bechdel test. IIRC, only the lunch scene with the visiting nuns and a couple of Serafine’s conversations with her younger friend (the landlords’ daughter?) about her painting make it qualify. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/74 "2012-02-15T18:17:02Z")
Not high on my list of favorites, but a good movie - [_Ginger Snaps_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0210070/). The Fitzgerald sisters spend most of the film talking to each other, and it’s about whether one of them has turned into a werewolf. Does a female writer increase the likelihood of passing the test? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/75 "2012-02-15T18:20:52Z")
Blazing Saddles fails the test, but Airplane passes. So there! ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/76 "2012-02-15T18:27:22Z")
_Gosford Park_. Lots of female characters, and although there is much talk about men, there’s also talk about other things: movies, the “toffee-nosed” lady of the house, murder, clothes, babies. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/77 "2012-02-15T18:28:02Z")
It might be instructive to go through and make a list for the reverse test, for comparison (two men talking about something other than a woman). I expect that at least 90% of movies would pass easily, with no asterisk or room for dispute. The only exceptions I can think of are movies that have almost no dialog at all, like _Fantasia_. No, wait, _Fantasia_ passes the female test! The last song (and I think the only one with lyrics) is “Ave Maria”, sung by nuns, and is therefore women talking about a woman! ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/78 "2012-02-15T18:29:01Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > By the way, my own favorite Bechdel-qualifying film is _Serafine_. And considering that it’s a movie about a middle-aged female virgin painter and housekeeper who used to work in a convent and who ends up in a women’s lunatic asylum, it’s fucking INCREDIBLE how close it comes to **FAILING** the Bechdel test. I mentioned **Monster** and **Eve’s Bayou** , and those are borderline too. Especially the latter. Samuel L Jackson is the only main male character in that movie, but the plot completely revolves around him. So even when the female characters discuss subjects besides men (like the cause for the daughter’s nervous breakdown), indirectly they are often talking about Jackson’s character. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/79 "2012-02-15T18:31:24Z")
_Spaced Invaders_ – a funny, poignant film about 4 lost Martians attempting to invade a small town in Illinois on Halloween. The main character is a girl who befriends them and takes them trick or treating in a neighborhood mom’s staion wagon. I’d say it doesn’t quite make the cut since all the Martains appear to be male. _The Package_ – Late 80’s drama about Master Segreant Gene Hackman who loses his prisoner Tommy Lee Jones, who is tasked by a shadowy cabal of US and Soviet officers to assasinate Premeir Gorbachev to further the nuclear stalemate, thus preventing actual war (spoiler!). Does not pass, Hackman’s ex-wife Joanna Cassidy only has one or two conversations with people other than Hackman and all of it is about Hackman and the plot he’s sucked up in. _Empire Strikes Back_ – There are only two women in the universe during this movie – Princess Leia and the good looking lady standing by the Ion fire control on Hoth. _Captain America: The First Avenger_ – Peggy Carter was the only main female character and she doesn’t talk to any other woman as far as I can remember. _Tank Girl_ – Eh well not my favorite (I like it and all, but still not a fav), but it has some conversations between Tank Girl and Jet Girl right? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/80 "2012-02-15T18:31:55Z")
Ooh! I finally thought of one:[Red Dirt.](http://www.reddirt.com/) There are plenty of scenes that take place between a teen-aged girl and a reclusive old woman, and not all of them are directly about the guys in the film. There is also a mother-daughter conversation that isn’t directly about boys. There is a nice scene where the younger cajoles the elder out of the house to go for a ride around the property, and I’m pretty sure it was mostly a women-bonding thing. A man or two might have been mentioned here or there, but the scenes were very much about the women, their lives, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880.md?page=5)