# Name your favourite movie - but it has to pass the test! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880 "2012-02-15T02:14:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/121 "2012-02-17T20:44:30Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I suspect that a lot of people are missing the point in this thread. I can easily come up with a list of films that pass the test, but if I go through a list of what I would list as my _favorite_ films, there are few that do. Moreover, in the cases of the ones that do pass the test, it’s really not in a significant way – virtually all the interaction on screen is between men or a man and a woman. So **Spartacus** passes the test, but just because of one pretty inconsequential scene. **The Terminator** has only a couple of scenes between women (Sarah and the other waitress, Sarah and her roommate) that do no more than set up background. Right, and the bar for qualifying is set low on purpose. All a movie needs to pass is one conversation between two women that’s not about a man. “Where’d I put my coffee cup.” “It’s by the toaster.” is all you need and it makes it that much more striking when a movie like Crazy Stupid Love or The Muppets can’t dredge up even that. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/122 "2012-02-17T21:07:24Z")
Heathers Clueless Serenity ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/123 "2012-02-17T23:02:58Z")
\*Jurassic Park \*- Ellie Sattler talks to Lex (but not that much) \*Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory \*- Violet tells Veruca to “Can it, you twit!” 🙂 \*Rose Red \*(Stephen King miniseries) - Lots of female/female conversations \*Sherlock Holmes \*1 and 2 - no \*Raiders of the Lost Ark \*- no \*Dogma \*- I think Bethany talks to God (as played by Alanis Morissette) a couple of times, but I’m not sure that counts 🙂 \*Galaxy Quest \*- don’t think so ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/124 "2012-02-18T00:18:44Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > \*Dogma \*- I think Bethany talks to God (as played by Alanis Morissette) a couple of times, but I’m not sure that counts 🙂 She has a conversation with a female coworker in the break room of the abortion clinic where she works. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/125 "2012-02-18T00:32:20Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I suspect that a lot of people are missing the point in this thread. I can easily come up with a list of films that pass the test, but if I go through a list of what I would list as my _favorite_ films, there are few that do. Moreover, in the cases of the ones that do pass the test, it’s really not in a significant way – virtually all the interaction on screen is between men or a man and a woman. So **Spartacus** passes the test, but just because of one pretty inconsequential scene. **The Terminator** has only a couple of scenes between women (Sarah and the other waitress, Sarah and her roommate) that do no more than set up background. Yep - it seems like a few people are seeing it as a challenge to think of films that pass, which is not really the point. I must admit my mind kept coming up with films that do pass and I had to remind myself of my genuine favourites. The main reason a lot of films don’t pass - or barely pass - is that so many films have mostly male characters or a man is the centre of the movie and most conversations involve him. Even a lot of romcoms fail because, while they might have a lot of female characters, the subject matter dictates the conversations. TV is way better at this and not just because of the number of episodes compared to the broadcast time of a movie; I’d say most individual TV episodes, at least from the 90s onwards, would pass. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/126 "2012-02-18T00:33:47Z")
By the way, _Mildred Pierce_ (which passes the test with flying colors) was released the day I was born. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/127 "2012-02-18T00:43:46Z")
Thanks everybody for coming up with a bunch of movies that I’ve seen and didn’t think of. Like Aliens, Studio Ghibli movies (which often have a main character who is female), All About Eve, Girl Interrupted, Little Women, etc. As many other people have said, the point of this “test” is not that movies that fail the test are necessarily bad movies. The point (to me) is to show how many movies fail that test, vs. how many movies would fail the “Reverse Bechdel” test (i.e. to pass the reverse test, you have to have two men, named characters, talking to each other about something that’s not a woman.) The imbalance is immediately visible. As to what can conclude from that, I won’t venture to say, this isn’t Great Debates. 😉 P.S. I see several examples of conversations between female characters where, as far as I can tell, one of the female characters is an unnamed bit player in the movie, so it would still fail the “enhanced” test with the commonly added rule that the two female characters must be named in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/128 "2012-02-18T00:51:51Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > By the way, _Mildred Pierce_ (which passes the test with flying colors) was released the day I was born. Really? I didn’t know you were [so precocious!](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1492030/) 🙂 Also, Ellis Dee mentioned earlier that manly themes are more suited to big-screen productions. I don’t know that I agree with that. e.g. war movies often include issues facing civilians. Those civilians are more likely to be women. For science fiction movies, it would be just as likely for the characters to be women as men, even if it’s a war or action adventure science fiction movie. Animated features the same. e.g. Kung Fu Panda - you could switch the gender of all the main characters, making most of them females, and the story would not have suffered. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/129 "2012-02-18T01:25:37Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I agree, the purpose of the test is to reveal the culturally-embedded sexism in movies, and it does so brilliantly. That’s what I thought. It’s very effective for what it sets out to do. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/130 "2012-02-18T01:29:09Z")
I agree on sci fi and cartoons. I was more talking about action movies with lots of stuntmen, big explosions, car chases, etc… These things lend themselves quite well to the big screen, and aren’t particularly women-friendly except for deliberate gender role subversion. (eg: Salt.) To my viewpoint, television is the analog for the intimate interpersonal relationships of women, while movies are the analog for the more superficial (but not less important) relationships of men. (Superficial relationships are the bedrock of modern society.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/131 "2012-02-18T02:31:08Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Animated features the same. e.g. Kung Fu Panda - you could switch the gender of all the main characters, making most of them females, and the story would not have suffered. And so on. There’s been some buzz about the fact that Pixar’s upcoming _The Brave_ will be their first movie with a female main character. This despite the fact that many of their movies are primarily about non-human characters (toys, animals, cars, etc.) and that many could just as easily be depicted as female rather than male. As for the question in the OP, I decided to just look at my collection of DVDs and see which ones passed the test rather than try to pick my favorite films of all-time. Some of the following are far from being my favorite, but I own them anyway. In alphabetical order: _Bend It Like Beckham_ – numerous conversations about football, families, clothes, cooking, etc., between the two female leads or one of the leads and her mother or sister. _The Hunger_ – several conversations about music, aging, and vampirism between the two female leads _Moulin Rouge!_ – this one may just barely qualify, I’d have to check the specific scene I’m thinking of to be sure. The Nicole Kidman character briefly talks to another woman about her desire to become a legitimate actress, but this is wrapped up with her plan to seduce the Duke. _Singles_ – I don’t think there are _many_ qualifying conversations, but a female character argues with her roommate about loading the dishwasher and also talks to another woman about getting a video dating profile made. Disney’s _Sleeping Beauty_ – there are several all-female scenes involving the princess, the fairy godmothers, and/or the wicked fairy where they discuss domestic matters, the use of magic, and the spinning wheel curse. _Thelma and Louise_ – the majority of the dialogue is between the two female leads, and while a good bit of it is about men there’s also a lot about what they plan to do next and how they’re going to evade the law. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/132 "2012-03-06T16:39:55Z")
Has no one mentioned Network yet? All-time great movie and Faye Dunaway has convos with men and women both about all sorts of things. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/133 "2012-03-06T19:44:08Z")
Does Eowyn talk to any women in LOTR? Cause the only other women I can remember are Arwen and Galadriel. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/134 "2012-03-06T21:58:02Z")
And Lobelia, who’s only heard from off-screen, and Rosie, who I don’t think has any lines at all in the theatrical release. Oh, and Shelob, too, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/135 "2012-03-07T17:22:07Z")
Let’s go on a crosscultural movie trip Spice World Josie and the Pussycats Tyler Perry’s The Family That Preys Madea’s Big Happy Family For Colored Girls Precious That Thing You Do! Showgirls Gypsy The Help ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/136 "2012-03-07T20:16:07Z")
Oops…I failed the OP…none of those films is my favorite… ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/137 "2012-03-08T02:21:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You’re really not getting this. If an individual movie fails the Bechdel test, that doesn’t mean the movie is bad, or needs to have women added to it to make it better. The point of the test is to illustrate a general bias in films as a media, not to take any individual film to task for not upholding feminist ideals. Right. I find it kind of interesting (and telling) just how many people are missing the point (are they all men?). I just love the argument that men’s stories are inherently more dramatic (and therefore make better movies) than women’s stories. And it was serious. Pretty sad when that’s the conclusion you draw from this exercise. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/138 "2012-03-08T02:25:23Z")
Sleepless in Seattle. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/139 "2012-03-08T05:46:16Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > I just love the argument that men’s stories are inherently more dramatic (and therefore make better movies) than women’s stories. And it was serious. Pretty sad when that’s the conclusion you draw from this exercise. Pretty sad when you misunderstand so thoroughly. More **cinematic** , not dramatic. Big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880/140 "2012-03-08T06:35:12Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Right. I find it kind of interesting (and telling) just how many people are missing the point (are they all men?). > > I just love the argument that men’s stories are inherently more dramatic (and therefore make better movies) than women’s stories. And it was serious. Pretty sad when that’s the conclusion you draw from this exercise. Although it was a convenient object lesson in exactly the sort of culturally embedded assumptions this test was invented to highlight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-your-favourite-movie-but-it-has-to-pass-the-test/612880.md?page=8)