I must admit, I had a good chuckle over “Canuckistan!” 
Bob: Why would you have an issue about how a foreign language operates internally?
Some people are very sensitive about such things. I knew a kid of Turkish decent who had been told by his elders that anyone that said “Turkey” instead of “Turkiye” (i have no idea how to type an umlaut over that u) were racists. I proceeded to ask him what he called Japan and Germany, and then asked if he was a racist for not calling them Nippon and Deutschland. The Turkey/Turkiye debate is especially weird because it’s not even a case of a neighboring peoples being called “those guys” or “the other people.” It’s just a vowel shift, for crying out loud!
I have a feeling that such concerns are tied in with anti-imperialist/anti-American sentiments, along the lines of: “Those jerks can’t even get our name right!” in many parts of the world. Also, with the rise of English as a world language, many nationalists might feel that their country is losing its identity when its own citizens start using English words or pronuciations instead of native ones. Just look at France and their desire to give French names to “English” words like “internet” and “e-mail.”
I suspect it would be sensible to emphasise the word “some” in your first sentence there, mcbiggins. Without wanting to contradict your anecdote I’ve spoken to Turkish people who were happy enough to use the English pronunciation when speaking English and didn’t accuse me of being racist when I pronounced it that way. The Turks have already made the big step of replacing the Arabic alphabet with a version of the Roman one we use, so they aren’t particularly protectionist in these matters.
There are regular posters to these boards that have plenty enough first hand experience of that region to give us a definitive call – perhaps they’ll be along soon.
I guess my saying I’d have “issues” was a bit strong.:eek:
I find the argument for old/divergent language names compelling enough to agree.
I thought about "newer"nations. English seems to replicate the native names fairly well (with the exception of Kiribati).
We took their spelling but not their pronunciation. (for those who care, it’s something close to “Kiribahss”).
To continue the aside, we Americans rarely refer to this country as “America” either - we usually call it the United States or the US. When travelling abroad, I noticed that most other people do call it America, and I picked up the habit when I lived abroad. In fact, I remember talking to my dad on the phone and making reference to my roommate going “to America” to visit her family, and having my dad laugh at me. He just thought it sounded weird.
Bob: I think you might have it backwards. “Kiribati” comes from “Gilbert,” doesn’t it?
So, what do you call the following?
[list=1][li]Zhong Guo[/li][li]Tae Han Min Guk[/li][li]España[/li][li]Magyar[/li][li]Singapura[/li][li]Nihon[/li]Brasil[/list=1]
The new name Türkiye and the Roman alphabet adapted for writing Turkish came in at about the same time, in the 1920s after the Ottoman Empire was overthrown. In Ottoman times, the country wasn’t self-designated as Türkiye; it was called Devlet-i Âliye-i Osmaniye (literally ‘The Sublime Ottoman State’; written in the Arabic alphabet).
To get ü, type Alt 0252 using the numeric keypad on the right of your keyboard (make sure the Num Lock light is turned on).
Monty, Hungary’s self-designation is Magyarország.
I’ve got one. Anybody recognize the name Bharat? How about al-Mamlakah al-Maghribiyah? Or Eesti?
Magyarorszag, right?
<shakes fist at Jomo Mojo over the Hungary thing>
…
Bharat = India
al-Mamlakah al-Maghribiyah = Morroco
Eesti = Estonia
OK, Jomo Mojo, here’s some softballs for you …
al-Misr = ?
Bod = ? (clue: no longer an independent nation)
Extra credit:
Turkish Yunanistan = ?
the middle 2 look arabic with the “al” but otherwise, i don’t know.
but i would like to raise the point of arabic names. When was the last time anyone hrere called Egypt “misri” (the closest possible english spelling - the s is actaully sort of a swallowed sw sound). My point is that many of the arabic letters are unpronouncable to speakers of english. i studied it for 2 years and still can’t pronounce 3 or 4 of them without having a cold.
and upon preview, al-misr would be egypt
Thus my last posting above shows the utter silliness of griping about what term another language uses internally for a country.
I do find it mildly upsetting that some people are changing it to “mi guo,” “rice country.” I can’t remember if I’ve actually read any discussion about this, but I’ve always assumed it’s meant as an affront of some kind.
the way rice coutry was explained to me was that the chinese got here, saw how big it was and thought, “wow, you could grow a lot of rice here.” don’t know how accurate that is, but i don’t find it at all confrontational.
What if the word “Canada” is unpronounceable in your native language, or means something obscene, or sounds like something bad, or your language doesn’t use the English-language alphabet?
generally things get transliterated (to say kanada in japanese). Canada is a bad example b/c all of the sounds are fairly common. If we were to take Peoria, IL and pretend it was country, Arabic has no “o” or “p” so it would wind up like biuria (spelled ba’-waw-ra’-alif) or similiar, just taking the sounds that come closest (much like english did with iraq).
Another factor is that a nation might have accent marks that another nation does not use. Take, for example, Cote d’Ivoire. It’s supposed to have several marks I neither know nor know how to make here. It’s much easier for English speakers to call it the Ivory Coast. Plus we know what that means.
It doesn’t bother me that Mexico refers to the U.S. as (correct me if I’m wrong) los Estados Unidos. It means United States. It’s not like their calling us El Gringos del Norte or something.
We spell their country right, but mispronounce it. When we appropriated the Spanish word canon, with the accent mark, we pronounced it right but had to start spelling it “canyon.”
Trivia: The type of word we’re discussing is an exonym: A name by which one people or social group refers to another and by which the group so named does not refer to itself.
Chinese, due to its lack of an alphabet, has to transliterate all foreign names into a group of characters with a relatively similar pronunciation. Canada becomes “Jia na da”, New York becomes “Niu Yue”, Spain (España) becomes “Xi ban ya” (xi is pronounced something like “see”), and so forth.