# Names of obsolete/outdated technology that continues to get mileage in sci-fi works **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 3, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962 "2013-11-03T03:40:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/61 "2013-11-05T04:12:53Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Just as an aside: we still say “dial” for telephones, so it’s not surprising that old language would continue even when outmoded by technology. We also still occasionally say things like “hang up the phone” even when we’re referring to cell phones. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/62 "2013-11-05T04:23:43Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Many of them are from when that was the only rewritable storage media, tho. Actually, some of them are from the 1990s, which seems rather odd to me. But, yes, it is a carryover from the old reel-to-reel storage units so prominently displayed in the SF classics of the 1950s. I suppose the generic term should be ‘record’ since the earlier meaning of 33 1/3 long playing record has passed from the common consciousness. Perhaps in the future, we will refer to portable data storage units by some single phrase or word. In 2013, my friends and I exchange these little pieces of plastic, metal and semiconductors to share data. They are called by many names: thumbdrives, USB drives, data-sticks, “that thing you have in your hand”. Language doesn’t transform itself as quickly as does technology. So, we still have (and probably will have) anachronistic terms for thoroughly modern devices. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/63 "2013-11-05T19:34:03Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Yes, it seems in spaceflight we have a shortening of earlier phrases _Mission_ Commander or Pilot in Command; my WAG, because as they evolved in the Space Race days the flights were structured around a specific mission objective and you are commander _of the crew for that one mission_ rather than “captain of the vessel” (specially since the vessels have been mostly one-use jobs). While your wag is interesting and fits, what I always heard is that when multi-crew space missions were invented, the astronauts didn’t want to be called "_co-pilots", they wanted to all be "pilots"_. So Apollo had a Commander who actually flew the Command and Service Module, the CSM Pilot, and then the LM Pilot. LM Pilot sort of makes sense - he’s the guy left in the LM while the other to go to the surface. > [@Yllaria](#): > > Vera. 😉 > [@Lumpy](#): > > At least originally marines’ primary day-to-day function was to serve as shipboard police, to keep the crews from mutinying. I’d like to see _that_ in a science-fiction setting! 😃 Well, that harkens from the days of press gangs, where crews were forced labor. That concept is kinda out of synch with our current notions of democracy. But I’m sure someone could dream up a future society less beholden to democratic ideals that uses press gangs/forced labor to staff the ships, and then the marines would be valuable discipline enforcers. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Actually “wouldn’t it be cool” and “it makes sense” might well be the same thing in the case of something as arbitrary as a name. I was thinking more about the style of combat and command structure that those titles imply via historical heritage and how they are executed in stories rather than merely nomenclature. > [@Trinopus](#): > > He even distinguishes between Dive Bombers and Torpedo Bombers – but in deep space, I can’t figure out how the two are supposed to differ. Where the hell is “sea level” in deep space? I haven’t read it, but I imagine one could differentiate between ballistic projectiles and automated and self-propelled warheads. Calling the first “bombs” and the second “torpedoes” would be consistent and clear. The methods of attack would be somewhat different based upon the strengths and weaknesses of each weapon, rather than any concept of “waterline”. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/64 "2013-11-05T19:42:08Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > While your wag is interesting and fits, what I always heard is that when multi-crew space missions were invented, the astronauts didn’t want to be called "_co-pilots", they wanted to all be "pilots"_. So Apollo had a Commander who actually flew the Command and Service Module, the CSM Pilot, and then the LM Pilot. LM Pilot sort of makes sense - he’s the guy left in the LM while the other to go to the surface. > > \ I believe you meant ‘left in the CSM’ instead, right? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/65 "2013-11-05T20:24:19Z")
Their actual titles were: Commander -(CDR) Primary Pilot for takeoff of the Saturn V and landing/takeoff of the LM. Command Module Pilot (CMP) - Handled maneuvering of the Command Module after takeoff - did not land on the moon. Lunar Module Pilot (LMP) - Co-pilot of the Lunar Module during landing/takeoff of the LM. And the original function of the marines was to fight the ship (back in the galley/trireme days). ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/66 "2013-11-06T09:13:54Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > At least originally marines’ primary day-to-day function was to serve as shipboard police, to keep the crews from mutinying. I’d like to see _that_ in a science-fiction setting! 😃 Actually, in TV shows, it seems almost more likely to have dedicated Security personnel than to find anyone labeled as Space Marines. Star Trek: Security (who also served on landing parties) Babylon 5: Security (who never left the station, but would fight enemy troops if they boarded the station) Space: Above and Beyond: Split the difference. They’re Marine Corps Space Cavalry officers, but we see them standing guard duty from time to time. Incidentally, in the modern-day US Air Force, the dedicated ground combat types are called “Security Forces” (they’re our version of the Army’s MPs, more or less, allowing for some significant cultural and doctrinal differences). In the older days, they were Security Police, so I could see a space arm just calling their infantry types “Security” of some flavor. Maintain the security of the ship, secure a landing site on the planet’s surface, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/67 "2013-11-06T15:21:52Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Vera. Ftw! ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/68 "2013-11-06T16:40:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s a little different, though, in that those are names for specific weapon designs, and not a class of weapons. I think he meant tomahawk and javelin _class_ missiles. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/69 "2013-11-06T18:39:02Z")
Out of curiosity, what powers and authority does a spacecraft commander have? From what I have seen, the guys on the ground are in charge. S/he does not seem to be a captain like a ship’s captain is. Although, this could just be a function of the fairly easy communications, which will not be the case if and when interplanetary and intersteller craft are deployed. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/70 "2013-11-06T21:57:24Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I believe you meant ‘left in the CSM’ instead, right? :smack: > [@Zakalwe](#): > > Commander -(CDR) Primary Pilot for takeoff of the Saturn V and landing/takeoff of the LM. > Command Module Pilot (CMP) - Handled maneuvering of the Command Module after takeoff - did not land on the moon. > Lunar Module Pilot (LMP) - Co-pilot of the Lunar Module during landing/takeoff of the LM. That’s what I meant. The “CM Pilot” was only the pilot when the Commander wasn’t present, and the “LM Pilot” was not the primary operator of the LM. > [@Raguleader](#): > > Star Trek: Security (who also served on landing parties) Except for _Enterprise_, where they inserted the [MACO](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Military_Assault_Command_Operations)s. They were a separate military organization from Starfleet. > [@AK84](#): > > Out of curiosity, what powers and authority does a spacecraft commander have? From what I have seen, the guys on the ground are in charge. S/he does not seem to be a captain like a ship’s captain is. Although, this could just be a function of the fairly easy communications, which will not be the case if and when interplanetary and intersteller craft are deployed. Largely a function of operations being heavily Earth dependent, and frequent comm. The commander is the one in the hot seat on the mission and makes any time sensitive calls when contact isn’t present. Any long duration missions like to Mars are going to have to function more independently, and the mission commander will have to have greater autonomy to match the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/71 "2013-11-07T01:34:09Z")
Space missions in our solar system might (due to time lag) resemble operations in the Pacific during World War Two. Although voice radio was available the vast majority of messages were sent in Morse; meaning that the Captain or CO would order a message delivered to the radio shack, the radioman would transmit it in Morse, the radioman on duty at the other end would transcribe it and route the message to it’s recipient, who would then decide what if anything to send back. A delay of minutes usually, longer if it was routine or involved conferring on a decision. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/72 "2013-11-07T09:19:05Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > The guys in _Starship Troopers_ weren’t called “Space Marines”, but Heinlein did use the term in several other stories (including _Space Cadet_ and various short stories in his “Future History”). Troopers were members of a troop. A troop is a multi-function battle group. For mobility, troopers had horses. So far so good, although I dunno where the name came from: they seem more like “marines” than “Starship Troopers” Now I’m hearing the usages “troop” to indicate individial soldiors, so I suppose if he was writing now, it would be “Starship Troops” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/73 "2013-11-07T09:56:42Z")
> [@Longshanks](#): > > Why not call them space infantry? Because space is an ocean. No, really. You have spaceships. Antimatter torpedoes. Charting courses through nebulae. Admiral Ackbars. Even the word “astronaut” means “sailor of the stars”. So if you have a (star)ship and aboard that ship are soldiers the purpose of which is to board other ships and/or carry out offensive landings on hostile beaches/planets, they gotta be Marines. Oorah, devil spacedog. > [@Lumpy](#): > > What’s the alternative- laser musket? 😛 Weaponized Light Projector ! It’s a TLA, the Army should love it. Honestly though, we call rail guns… well, rail _guns_. Even though they are nothing whatsoever like a gun save for the part where they throw heavy matter at high rates of velocity. Might as well call them rail trebuchets for similar semantic accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/74 "2013-11-07T16:54:32Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > That’s what I meant. The “CM Pilot” was only the pilot when the Commander wasn’t present, and the “LM Pilot” was not the primary operator of the LM. I’m not sure this is correct. I believe the CMP handled the docking and extraction of the LM and may have handled some course correction work during normal flight since the CDR and LMP were often busy getting the LM ready. It is however, true that the LMP did not fly the LM (although Al Bean got to do it when Conrad let him on the back side of the moon during the ascent from the lunar surface - he may have been the only one although there are rumors of others that got to try it). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/75 "2013-11-07T19:08:39Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > I’m not sure this is correct. I believe the CMP handled the docking and extraction of the LM and may have handled some course correction work during normal flight since the CDR and LMP were often busy getting the LM ready. In other words, when the CDR wasn’t available. Okay, I’ll give you docking and extraction of the LM. There still seems to be a lot of piloting of the CM done by the CDR. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/76 "2013-11-10T13:45:33Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > > [@MEBuckner](#): > > > > The guys in _Starship Troopers_ weren’t called “Space Marines”, but Heinlein did use the term in several other stories (including _Space Cadet_ and various short stories in his “Future History”). H. Beam Piper also had Space Marines in his “Future History” (including the Fuzzy novels). The name seems to show up fairly frequently in your more space-opera-ish science fiction from maybe the Thirties through the Sixties. > > Troopers were members of a troop. A troop is a multi-function battle group. For mobility, troopers had horses. So far so good, although I dunno where the name came from: they seem more like “marines” than “Starship Troopers” > > Now I’m hearing the usages “troop” to indicate individial soldiors, so I suppose if he was writing now, it would be “Starship Troops” I suspect that, as is often the case, the title was chosen by the publisher, not the author. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/77 "2013-11-10T13:53:46Z")
The “Star Trek” spaceships-they all seem to have 19th century electrical systems (no circuit breakers). The Ënterprise gets hit by a Klingon torpedo-and there is a big shower of sparks under the control panel. Spock takes off a panel-and starts poking around with a screwdriver (no rubber gloves). Eventually Spock fixes the short circuit-and the ship’s lights come back on. This is like a scene from a WWII naval battle. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/78 "2013-11-10T18:06:31Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The “Star Trek” spaceships-they all seem to have 19th century electrical systems (no circuit breakers). The Ënterprise gets hit by a Klingon torpedo-and there is a big shower of sparks under the control panel. Spock takes off a panel-and starts poking around with a screwdriver (no rubber gloves). > Eventually Spock fixes the short circuit-and the ship’s lights come back on. This is like a scene from a WWII naval battle. Larry Niven portrayed space battle as spending hours or days setting up for a five-minute confrontation that would determine whether or not you were turned into a cloud of plasma. But that lacks the drama we expect in fiction. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962/79 "2013-11-11T00:01:43Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > I suspect that, as is often the case, the title was chosen by the publisher, not the author. Possibly. But within the book itself, the Mobile Infantry are often referred to as “cap troopers” (referring to the capsules in which they launch from the ship to the planet). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-of-obsolete-outdated-technology-that-continues-to-get-mileage-in-sci-fi-works/672962.md?page=3)