# "Names you associate with \[edit for racial slur\]" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 1, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004 "2003-10-01T22:26:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/121 "2003-10-02T22:54:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fruitbat \* > \*\*You do realize that what you said in your first post is completely different from what you said in your second post? In the first you clearly and unequivocably said that all insults should be jettisoned in a civil society and anyone who uses them is trash. > > In the second post you pretended that you just meant the specific term ‘white trash’ and other insults that make reference to race or class. > > Big difference. \*\* Yes, in my first post I was preoccupied with insults based on bigotry. Hence the “ANY”. This was the gist of the OP if I’m not mistaken. I don’t think insulting someone due to bigotry is anything to be proud of. I posted while still preoccupied with the bigotry and totally overlooked all the other perfectly acceptable situations in which insults could be used :rolleyes: In my second post, I wrote a clarification in my second sentence. Maybe this makes me an idiot. Fine with me. That’s a descriptive insult I can live with. I’m not a big fan of the whole PC movement, so it’s hard for me to understand why it’s OK to use insulting phrases in regards to one group, but not another. I’m beginning to get a clearer picture thanks to the enlightened posters of this board. Another PC device I’m not to keen on is hate laws. Ask yourselves this… If I grabbed a guy coming out of Wal Mart (from what I gather in other threads, this is a favorite white trash hang out) and killed him while yelling, “I’m gonna KILL you, you white trash motherfucker!” would this be a hate crime? I killed him for no other reason than he was wearing a mullet and a wife beater shirt and was coming out of a store where I had heard a large percentage of the shoppers were white trash. Why is this any different than killing a guy just because I thought he was gay? I didn’t kill the guy because he was white, I killed him because he was white trash. Big difference And **lezlers** , yes I have read the entire thread. I realize there is a quest for better descriptors. I merely questioned the need for descriptors at all, this in my second post. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/122 "2003-10-03T00:36:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duke of Rat \* > \*\* > And **lezlers** , yes I have read the entire thread. I realize there is a quest for better descriptors. I merely questioned the need for descriptors at all, this in my second post. \*\* Read **monstro** ’s post again, because that pretty much explains the need for a common descriptor. Ghetto doesn’t work as a descriptor for the white trash “style”. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/123 "2003-10-03T01:11:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\ ***Duke** , > > Did you miss the part of the thread that stated the term “white trash” is used to describe a _lifestyle_ and _behavior_ of a group of people? It’s a descriptor. > > That’s why the “substitute term” was being discussed. The white part makes it a racial thing, to some. We’re merely trying to come up with a term that is just as effective as a _descriptor_ without the racial part of it. > > Catch up. \*\* Catching up here…Seems like the PC police decided that it was uncouth to use the term “bum” any more. Now the proper term is “homeless person”. This appears to be a lifestyle/behavior issue, yet PC has issued the proper term to be used. Fascinating that moving only slightly up the socio-economic ladder opens people to derogatory insults, although not entirely applicable since all bums aren’t white. I mean all homeless people aren’t white. And re **monstro** ’s post. That’s all well and good, I still don’t know why “poor folks” won’t work. I guess if people absolutely need to call others names in order to feel better about themselves, they will do it no matter what my opinion. It doesn’t mean I have to. And I have no idea why the double post. I got the “cannot find server” message and just logged off. I didn’t think it posted at all. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/124 "2003-10-03T01:26:09Z")
_sigh_ Are you being deliberately obtuse, **Duke**? The difference between poor people and white trash people has been discussed in this thread, and in many others. For someone who’s actually _read_ the thread, you’ve sure failed to pick up on a lot of important points. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/125 "2003-10-03T01:38:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fruitbat \* > \*\*Why yes I would expect to get my face re-arranged. Just as I would expect that if I called someone a cunt, shitstain or assmuffin. Like I said before there is a distinction between a word that is rude in a Miss Manners sense and bigotry. \*\* Care to explain why? If someone is honestly trying to hurt me with words (which hasn’t happened since, oh, 7th grade, who do you people associate with?), then I’m not going to be angry with the word, I’m going to be angry that they’re being a jerk. I could care less if the word was racist or bigoted or hebrew or pig-freakin’-latin. How many “let me prove that I’m not a racist by showing how incredibly, stupifyingly, insultingly, condescedningly _tolerant_ I am” parties do we have to have on these boards? ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/126 "2003-10-03T02:40:52Z")
I must have been unclear. That is exactly what I was saying. I was making it clear that there are many things I would not say to someone’s face unless I was spoiling for a fight. White trash is one of many of those terms. The fact that I wouldn’t say a word to someone’s face doesn’t mean that I think the word is racist. It just means I generally avoid trying to act like a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/127 "2003-10-03T04:08:57Z")
This is a mighty lofty debate, considering the topic’nall. I mean, think about the “white trash” target audience to which we are referring here: educationally challenged, uncouth, poorly coiffed, poorly raised and possibly even poorly bathed. :rolleyes: I’ve been ruminatin’. I think the distinction lies in what the epithet means to the _recipient_, not all of us out here in the ether. **fruitbat** , you make a good point – in an admirably egalitarian way – you call me a shitstain and from where I sit I’ll think you’ve lost your argument and/or marbles. But on the other hand, you call me a “slow-witted amnesiac” and I’ll be angry and hurt. Call me that yesterday and I’m not quite so hurt. You call me that now and you’re using something against me that you know hurts my feelings. Epithets are deplorable because they are like trawling for sore feelings. Epithets are such delicate snares, yet still manage to grab onto something that people loathe about themselves, or they just happen to _nick_ a characterization that impossibly lumps them in with a group that even **they** think is of a lower class. I’m just sayin’, I used to work as a bartender in a bowling alley. One night, our fry cook had a little altercation with a group of drunk conventioneers. Marie was a little _ahem_ _terse_ about several fried food returns and two refunds. As one of the customers was leaving Marie’s counter, the customer sneered _white trash **bitch** _ and walked off to the lanes. You know, I heard the woman say it (my service bar front was 10 inches down from the food counter), but didn’t at the time realize she was saying it at Marie. It was only while we were closing that Marie confided in me. “White trash” really hurt her feelings. She’d never been called that before. ---
**Author:** ![Palewriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/db5fbb/32.png) [@Palewriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palewriter)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/128 "2003-10-03T04:27:41Z")
Oh GMRyujin, you’re my hero (or heroine, whatever). It’s not the words, it’s the attitude, dude. - PW ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/129 "2003-10-03T04:40:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Audrey Levins \* > \*\*If black people are allowed to call each other “niggers,” and gay people are allowed to call each other “fags,” etc… > > Then I see no reason why a white person like myself can’t use the term “white trash.” Seriously. Why the hell not? I’d never use it on this _board_, just because I seem to have lost track of my flame-retardant cape, but I’ll admit I have no problem with other people using the term, and I have used it myself IRL. I’ve also used the term “redneck.” Sue me. I know plenty; my family is from West Texas, for Pete’s sake…one could argue that I _come_ from “white trash redneck” stock. That’s my “cultural heritage.” > > So what? I think it’s funny. I have a great-uncle who talks exactly like the mouth-full-of-marbles neighbor on _King Of The Hill._ If I have to put up with my half-crazed racist family, at least I get to call 'em names. > > 😃 \*\* I’m whiter than white, and have been poor too. And I’m with **Audrey** here. While others may think of the term “white trash” to mean poor white, to me the term describes the “Springerite” type. That is, the toothless, classless, purposefully ignorant, loudmouths one sees on the Springer show. If a person behaves in a socially unacceptable way, he/she is not going to have sweet adorations poured upon his/her head. In other words, if a person behaves in such an idiotic way, then they shouldn’t be surprised when they get called on it. I guess the term COULD be dropped to just be “trash” but that sort of person IS white, and they do act trashy (or would that be trashily?). Anyway, as a white, I’m not offended by the term. As far as I can see, it’s not even in the same neighborhood as a “racial slur”. And I certainly do NOT think it’s in any way comparable to the “N” word. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/130 "2003-10-03T08:13:29Z")
Geez, you leave a broken washing machine on your porch for a month and suddenly everyone’s all over you… ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/131 "2003-10-03T14:19:35Z")
> [@](#): > > **Originally posted by Weirddave** > _sigh_ Every time I see this it just gets stupider and stupider, bunches of people yelling and screaming for something to be offended at. It’s quite simple: “Nigger” is a word applied to people because of their skin color- a geneticly linked characteristic that is determined by a person’s genes and is completely beyond their control. “White trash” is a term applied to how a group of people act, talk, behave and chose to live-something that is completely within their control. Anyone who can’t see this HUGE difference is too stupid to pour piss out of a boot. Why not spend your outrage where there is cause for outrage, rather than on this made up, gotta-find-something-to-offend-me-or-I-won’t-be-able-to-bitch bullshit. I’m sorry, but this is just fucking moronic. “White Trash” is a term applied to how a group of _ **WHITE** _ people act, talk, behave and choose to live. This distinction alone is enough to make it a racist term. Is it as bad as “nigger”? Not in my opinion but that was never the point of the thread. Racist bigotry is racist bigotry and while there may be a spectrum of offensiveness, use all terms included in this spectrum should be frowned upon as the act of an individual deeply lacking in class and human decency. Racists have always rationalised their bigotry by claiming their ethnic slurs only applied to the dregs of the group they dispised. Hence, “nigger” was generally only applied to those blacks who were “uppity”. How, in any important respect, does their slackwitted rationalisation differ from **Weirddave’s?** ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/132 "2003-10-03T14:28:38Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m sorry, but this is just fucking moronic. “White Trash” is a term applied to how a group of WHITE people act, talk, behave and choose to live. This distinction alone is enough to make it a racist term. Actually, you completely misapprehend the meaning of the phrase. It is not a putdown of all white people as the n-word is a putdown of all black people, but only a subsection of white people that **behave** in such a way that it puts them outside the bounds of civilized society. > [@](#): > > Hence, “nigger” was generally only applied to those blacks who were “uppity”. Not so. It is a blanket term used for all black people. I urge you to read _Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word_, by Randall Kennedy, and cease calling people names until you know what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/133 "2003-10-03T14:48:00Z")
Ben, Nigger is a derogitory term based on who people are without knowing anything about them. White trash is based on how people act and chose to live. I said this in the post you quoted. Big difference. Interesting how you seem to be implying that I am racist against people of my own “race” as well, that’s a very provocative concept, look everybody, I hate myself! In any event, while white trash usually denotes people in the lower economic classes ( I wouldn’t call them the dreggs of white folk, but you aparently would ), it is by no means a requirement. I’ve met people who were textbook examples of white trash, yet had comfortable upper middle class incomes. On preview, what gobear said also. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/134 "2003-10-03T16:05:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > **My aunt is not “trailer trash” despite her living quarters or low income.** Exactly! This is what people are trying to tell you, but you refuse to see. Your aunt, despite her place of residence, is **not** trailer trash. The term refers to behavior, not living quarters. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/135 "2003-10-03T16:08:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duke of Rat \* > \*\*I meant coming up with replacement insults for bigotry. You ding my car door, I’ll call you an idiot. \*\* But later in this same post you go on to call some people “motherfuckers” – people who have, I’m 99.99% sure, not actually fucked your mother. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/136 "2003-10-03T16:19:27Z")
alan, NINA was real. It was very prevailent in Britain in the 1940’s and 50’s (along with “No Blacks, No dogs, No Irish”. rather than advertisments, they were signs in from of the factories and in the guesthouses. and of course, you put it down to some Irish Catholic conspiracy. googling the phrase brings up alot of instances of the phrase, including this [http://www.28thmass.com/NINA/no\_irish\_need\_apply.htm](http://www.28thmass.com/NINA/no_irish_need_apply.htm) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/137 "2003-10-03T16:57:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiff \* > \*\*Exactly! This is what people are trying to tell you, but you refuse to see. > > Your aunt, despite her place of residence, is **not** trailer trash. The term refers to behavior, not living quarters. \*\* Then why the "_white"_ in “white trash”? (Why the "_trailer"_ in “trailer trash”?) Why not just “lowlife scum”? rather than referring to race (or living quarters)? Does not "trash’ live both in and out of trailers? Is there something THAT specific about "lowlifes’ that live in trailer parks rather then projects, cheap apartments or shacks? Would I not be condemned for saying “nigger gangsters”? Even though I was only refering to Crips and such scum gangbangers? Why not just “scum gangbangers”? Why bring in “white” at all? Are “white folk” who are “lowlifes” somehow “special” because of their race or skin colour? I don’t think so. I think & beleive that “scum is scum” and “lowlifes are lowlifes” despite their skin colour, religion, ancestry- or even what sort of home they choose to live in. You can be “scum” living in a million $ home, or a great human being living in the meanest trailer park in the nation. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/138 "2003-10-03T17:18:03Z")
Oh for heaven’s sake. The term “white trash” or “trailer trash” is a descriptor for a _certain style of living_. Need me to say it again? Okay. _The term “white trash” or “trailer trash” is a descriptor for a certain style of living_. It’s a style more specific than “scum.” Scum can cover anyone from the gangbanger on the corner to the lowlife living in the crackhouse to the trashy guy in the trailer. Not much of a descriptor. That is why people look for a more specific term. Such as “ghetto.” Gangbangers work because that’s a very specific description of a certain lifestyle. If you just called them scum or trash, that wouldn’t be very specific, would it? Honestly, this isn’t a very difficult concept to grasp. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/139 "2003-10-03T17:21:05Z")
Replace all the _certain_’s with _specific_ and my post is a lot more consistant. Me need coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004/140 "2003-10-03T17:24:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*“If _allusions_ to racism, especially for the purpose of satirizing racism and its cousins, are confused with racism itself, then I think it is time to stop writing.” > > - Doug Hofstadter \*\* Oh, wow. Thanks **matt**! I’ve _finally_ got something intellectually clever to put in the Rush Limbaugh thread! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/names-you-associate-with-edit-for-racial-slur/205004.md?page=8)