# Naming of military units **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 10, 2023, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868 "2023-09-10T07:25:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/21 "2023-09-11T13:41:51Z")
There was a IV Corps in WWI and WWII. It was decommissioned in 1968. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/22 "2023-09-11T14:03:40Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Avoiding the number 4 in unit naming is exclusively an East Asian thing, as 4 is an ‘unlucky’ number akin to how 13 is an unlucky number in the West, only much more so. This is because the word for ‘4’ in Korean, Japanese, and Chinese is a homonym for the word meaning “death” or “to die”. Thirteen being an ‘unlucky’ number in the West isn’t enough to prevent using the number in for example, the US 13th Airborne Division. Four being an ‘unlucky’ number because it’s a homonym for “death” or “to die” **is** enough for South Korea to avoid using it in unit designations, being part of the “to die” division isn’t exactly morale inspiring. This is why even though South Korea has four army corps, they are numbered I, II, III, and V. Interesting. I wonder how they would react to serving alongside the British [Royal Lancers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Lancers). Their cap badge is a skull-and-crossbones with the motto “Or Glory”. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/23 "2023-09-11T14:12:10Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Fighter jets when I was growing up were numbered in the low hundreds: F-100 through F-105. I even had a set of little models of the 5 (they skipped F-103) aircraft on a stand. Man, that makes me feel old. I remember when the AF Thunderbirds came to Anchorage. They were flying F-100 Super Sabres. I also remember when the AF base transitioned to the F-102 delta wing fighters. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/24 "2023-09-11T14:41:58Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > There was a IV Corps in WWI and WWII. It was decommissioned in 1968. Would that be anything like retiring a jersey number? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/25 "2023-09-11T15:35:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > [@Dorjan](#): > > > > There was a IV Corps in WWI and WWII. It was decommissioned in 1968. > > Would that be anything like retiring a jersey number? There are a lot of units that have been deactivated. The military was huge during WWII. It’s a shadow of its former self. The designations that stay have more to do with the lineage and history of units than keeping the numbers in logical order. There was a big draw down after the Cold War. I was one of the last people to wear the 8th Infantry Division patch. I left Germany right before the division was deactivated. If needed they can pull the colors out of storage and start up the unit again. One of the stupidest moves the military did was around the same time. They deactivated the famed 2nd Armor Division. One brigade was in Germany and the rest were at Fort Hood. The entire division went away. When I got to Hood all their buildings were empty. Then they decided to make Fort Polk a training base. They moved the entire 5th Infantry Division to Fort Hood. Soldiers, families, pets and household goods. When they got to Fort Hood they were reflagged the 2nd Armor Division. 3 years later they deactivated the 2nd Armor again. When I joined the NJ National Guard we were in the 50th Armor Division. That was a Cold War construct. The NJ Guard had been the 44th Infantry Division but the Army wanted another Armor Division. After the Cold War the number of NG divisions were reduced. Eventually they went to a Brigade Combat Team concept. Many of the BCTs had their own patch. They got rid of our tanks and changed it to the 50th BCT. I knew some of the leaders in NJ who were annoyed that we lost all the lineage of units that served in WWII and before. The 50th had no important lineage. A couple of years ago they were successful in changing the 50th BCT to the 44th BCT. The old WWII patch came back and the old flag with battle streamers came back out. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/26 "2023-09-11T16:18:25Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Interesting. I wonder how they would react to serving alongside the British [Royal Lancers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Lancers). > > Their cap badge is a skull-and-crossbones with the motto “Or Glory”. Presumably no different than anything else. The implication of death in the number four isn’t that “we’re going to cause death” or “death or glory”, but “we’re going to die” which is why its avoided, and places in East Asia wind up with things like this: [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Shizuoka_Missing_Parking_Lot.JPG) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Shizuoka_Missing_Parking_Lot.JPG) and this: [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/ShanghaiMissingFloors_%28cropped%29.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/ShanghaiMissingFloors_%28cropped%29.jpg) US Armored divisions are another good example of a unit’s number having nothing to do with how many of a particular type of formation ever existed. There’s a complete order of battle of all of the Armored divisions raised by the US during WWII including their component formations [here](https://usacac.army.mil/sites/default/files/documents/carl/nafziger/941UXRA.pdf). WWII was the first time the US Army ever formed armored divisions, and it raised 16 of them. They weren’t neatly numbered 1 through 16. They were numbered 1 through 14, 16 and 20. No 15th, 17th, 18th or 19th Armored Divisions ever existed. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/27 "2023-09-11T21:39:08Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > Or maybe the DoD had some people who were from East Asia on the naming board and decided to skip over it much in the same way building’s often skip the 13th floor. > > Since the 14th infantry regiment was formed in the Civil War, I kinda doubt it Except the 14th wasn’t formed with 4 battalions during the Civil War. According to Wikipedia, it was formed with 3 battalions of 10 companies each. Obviously a Civil War company is very different from a modern light infantry company in organization, armament, etc. [According to this web site, the 5th Battalion was only active from 1986 to 1995.](https://army.togetherweserved.com/army/servlet/tws.webapp.WebApp?cmd=PublicUnit&type=Unit&ID=1862#unitdescription). Before and after that appears to be a convoluted history of merging companies into battalions and disbanding them back into companies again. But really I have no idea why they skipped over “4”. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/28 "2023-09-11T21:45:09Z")
In the Israeli Army, every unit from battalion on up (and even several smaller units) has its own unique non-recurring number. The numbers are assigned sequentially in order of establishment, or for other historic reasons, or seemingly at random - there is very little rhyme and reason. Thus, for instance, the 35th is an airborne brigade, with four battalions: the 101, the 202, the 890 and the 5135. The 35th, in turn, belongs to the 98th Division, which contains, in addition to the 35th, the 89th, 214th, 551st and 55th Brigades, as well as a few independent battalions. I guess the thought is that those who need to know what each number means, know, and those who don’t know don’t matter. It’s certainly not designed to make things easier for outsiders. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/29 "2023-09-11T21:51:45Z")
I thought that the IV Battalion was a medical unit? Along with the Catheter Battalion and the Colostomy Battalion ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/30 "2023-09-11T23:32:53Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > To make it even more confusing, it was renumbered the 501st SS Heavy Tank Battalion in September 1944 because the Germans decided to change their numbering scheme. Which came from a long-vaunted, well-storied [Legion](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/501st_Legion) from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, using similar helmets. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > FWIW, USAF is a total mess Seconded. Of two previous squadrons I was in, there were neither 818 previous sequentially-numbered RED HORSE Squadrons, nor 774 previous sequentially-numbered Civil Engineer Squadrons. I’m firmly convinced the CSAFs at the time 3d10’ed those designations just to mess with everyone. Tripler Current, proud member of the XVIII Chairborne Corps, SW Region. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/31 "2023-09-13T03:50:09Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Presumably no different than anything else. The implication of death in the number four isn’t that “we’re going to cause death” or “death or glory”, but “we’re going to die” which is why its avoided, and places in East Asia wind up with things like this: This is correct. Note that not all buildings and such skip number four, but many do. In the 90s, I lived in an apartment 405, where the other apartments on the floor were 401, 402 and 403. They didn’t skip the 4th floor, though. Back to the topic of the OP, the British intentionally skipped numbers when naming their Motor Torpedo Boats to give the impression there were more than in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/32 "2023-09-13T05:10:56Z")
Do you remember seeing some buildings with floors numbered as follows: 1, 2, 3, F, 5? That cracked me up when I saw it in Japan and Korea. And we all know what the F stands for. Kind of defeats the purpose. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/33 "2023-09-13T05:34:06Z")
I have not seen that myself. A quick google search finds results from Korea but not in Japan. Also note, hospitals are more likely to skip the forth floor than other buildings. 42 which can be read _shini_ 死に “to death” and 49 which can be read as _shiku_ 死苦, “agony of death” are avoided for licence plates. A bus route to a Hiroshima hospital was renamed from No. 42 after complaints. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/34 "2023-09-13T13:55:18Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I saw it in Japan “F” stands for “four”, not “shi”. Japanese are perfectly OK using a transliteration of a simple English word. “Ichi, ni, san, foru” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/35 "2023-09-13T13:57:54Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > “F” stands for “four”, not “shi”. Japanese are perfectly OK using a transliteration of a simple English word. That’s very interesting. I wonder if, given enough time, a language with a taboo against a certain number’s name that turns to a loan word to get around this taboo might eventually adopt the loan word for that number. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/36 "2023-09-13T14:32:51Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > places in East Asia wind up with things like this Not just in Asia; my former condo building in Toronto was missing a 4th, 13th and 14th floor and likewise for the unit numbers on a given floor. So our unit number was 2016 (20th floor, unit 16) but on the deed it said 1713 (17th floor, unit 13). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/37 "2023-09-13T14:59:27Z")
While 4 is bad, 8 is good. I remember seeing a block of apartment buildings in Malaysia numbered 88A, 88B, etc. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/38 "2023-09-13T17:26:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Being the junior service (at least until the recent creation of … wait for it … _Space_ Command!!) Checked out the Space Force, they have three servicewide Commands at the 2- or 3-star level, and operationally bunch of Squadrons that look like yep, they mostly kept the unit numbers from when they were USAF or Army units… … and then in between, the all new, sooo futuristic formation known as a “Delta” (basically, by type of mission). These come as Space Base Deltas 1 through 3 (just the management services for bases, not real space bases, sorry) and Space Deltas 1 through 13… **and** 18, **and** 30 and 45. So, yeah, even when creating a whole new unit-type, they did not keep it neat. (Looked it up: Space Delta 18 is the branch at the National Intelligence Center and were allegedly so named because they are the 18th entity there 🙄 ; SDs 30 and 45 are the launch facilities at Canaveral and Vandenberg that under USAF had been given “instant heritage” legacies from WW2 Bomber Wings **in 1991** ) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/39 "2023-09-13T17:41:02Z")
Space Force deltas are a drop-in replacement for their Air Force wing predecessors, but numbered anew (AFAIK). They probably inherit their Air Force heritage. After all, Air Force units inherited their Army heritage in 1947. The squadrons were brought across from the Air Force largely unchanged, including their heritage and heraldry. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868/40 "2023-09-17T06:06:16Z")
Speaking of unit numbering/naming, [New US artillery regiment readying to strengthen air defense in Europe](https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2023-09-15/air-defense-artillery-ansbach-vicenza-11383178.html) > STUTTGART, Germany — A new U.S. Army air defense unit will be activated next month in Europe with soldiers taking up positions in Germany and Italy, according to officials from the service. > > The 1st Battalion, 57th Air Defense Artillery Regiment will be based out of Ansbach, Germany, and one of its batteries will operate in Vicenza, Italy, the 10th Army Air and Missile Defense Command said in a statement Thursday. [Here](http://www.uniforms-4u.com/p-army-57-air-defense-artillery-unit-crest-9292.aspx) is some information on the old 1/57th ADA from a collector’s site. And now [the US Space Force has a new space force](https://www.stripes.com/branches/space_force/2023-09-14/new-spaces-forces-unit-ramstein-11373440.html). > KAISERSLAUTERN, Germany — Ramstein Air Base will be the headquarters of a new Space Force service component for Europe and Africa, according to the Air Force. > > A ceremony to stand up U.S. Space Forces Europe-Africa is planned for Dec. 8 at Ramstein, Air Force spokeswoman Capt. Jackie Lockett said in a statement Wednesday. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-military-units/989868.md?page=1)