# Naming of RN Warships? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860 "2008-04-03T23:44:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/1 "2008-04-03T23:44:27Z")
In reading the history of WWII, I was struck by how starnge some of the names that the Royal navy chose for its ships:, HMS HOTSPUR, and other interesting names,such as HMS VAMPIRE (destroyer-sunk in the batlle of the Java sea), HMS AMETHYST,etc. The US Navy had a similar practice-in WWII, submarines were named for fish-I liked “USS CROAKER”-the name seems quite approptiate. Why do we give warships such boring names today? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/2 "2008-04-04T00:26:51Z")
I can’t find a cite right now, but I seem to recall reading that when the Navy was trying to get funding for the Los Angles Class attack subs the reason for going from fish names to city names was that fish didn’t approve funding measures, but congressmen did. [hijack]In the Tom Clancy book Red Storm Rising, the USS Ruben James (IIRC) meets up with the HMS Battleaxe. The Battleaxe messages the Ruben James and asks what a Ruben James is. The Captain of the Ruben James replies that at least the US didn’t name their warships after their mothers-in-law. 😉 [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/3 "2008-04-04T00:52:25Z")
The USS REuben James (DD 245) was the first US Navy ship to be lost to hostile action in WWII. [http://yorkship.home.comcast.net/~yorkship/HTML/Yorkships.htm](http://yorkship.home.comcast.net/~yorkship/HTML/Yorkships.htm) and there have been at least 3 RN Battleaxe ships > **[Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions](https://www.answers.com/redirectSearch?query=hms-battleaxe-1)** > > Answers is the place to go to get the answers you need and to ask the questions you want Boring persons: [http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/bush/](http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/bush/) Boring places: [http://hamptonroads.com/node/254801](http://hamptonroads.com/node/254801) = Newest sub to be commissioned in Wilmington, NC, next month, > **[USS North Carolina (SSN-777)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_North_Carolina_(SSN-777))** > > USS North Carolina (SSN-777), a Virginia-class attack submarine, is the fourth vessel of the United States Navy named for U.S. state of > North Carolina. The contract to build her was awarded to Northrop Grumman Newport News on 30 September 1998 and her keel was laid down on 24 May 2004. She was launched on 5 May 2007. North Carolina was commissioned on 3 May 2008 in Wilmington, North Carolina. > This class of submarine is unique in that it features the Photonics Mast Program (PMP) that freed ship... within sight of the WWII battleship of the same name: [http://www.battleshipnc.com/index.html](http://www.battleshipnc.com/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/4 "2008-04-04T01:02:38Z")
The US Navy went from 790 active vessels in 1941 to 6,781 vessels in 1945. With that type of expansion, you need to be more creative with naming. I am finding 337 active vessels in 2001. You can be a lot pickier with names when you have less than 5% the number of vessels to be christened. I don’t have British fleet numbers as handy, but I can assure you a similar ratio holds. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/5 "2008-04-04T01:08:35Z")
(Added: If Wiki can be trusted, Her Majesty’s Navy has 81 active vessels as of 2007.) ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/6 "2008-04-04T02:05:05Z")
From the House of Commons [Hansard written answers](http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/vo031104/text/31104w24.htm) of Nov. 2003: > [@](#): > > \*\* Mr. Ingram: \*\* Her Majesty the Queen approves the names of warships on the recommendation of the First Sea Lord, as advised by the Ships’ Names and Badges Committee and as endorsed by my right hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for Defence. > > Policy for naming ships of the Royal Navy is informed by a number of guiding principles. For example, many ship names have a long and illustrious heritage, and a name with a tradition of Royal Navy use is preferred. Other factors in making a selection include the number of battle honours associated with a name, and whether a name is already classically associated with a particular type of vessel. Alternatively, a ship’s name might commemorate historically strong links between the Royal Navy and a particular town or district. Wiki’s [RN Ship Names](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ship_names_of_the_Royal_Navy) index is a treasure trove of marvelously flavourful names. Some of my particular favourites are: Revenge, Inflexible, Warspite, and Arrogant. “Hotspur” is a reference to [Sir Henry Percy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotspur). ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/7 "2008-04-04T02:47:39Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] [hijack]In the Tom Clancy book Red Storm Rising, the USS Ruben James (IIRC) meets up with the HMS Battleaxe. The Battleaxe messages the Ruben James and asks what a Ruben James is. The Captain of the Ruben James replies that at least the US didn’t name their warships after their mothers-in-law. 😉 [/hijack] [/QUOTE] Hijacking the hijack. In the book _Sand Pebbles_, which was about an American gunboat in China named _San Pablo_, the crew poked fun at a British gunboat named _Woodcock_, calling it “Timberdick.” The crew of the latter wracked their brains but couldn’t come up with anything worse than “Simple Apple.” The Sand Pebbles magnaminously said they would consider those fighting words and a horrid slur should they hear them uttered in their presence. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/8 "2008-04-04T03:30:11Z")
Certainly being in charge of ship-naming must be the best job in any navy. The Royal Navy simply has no system. Few new names are added when so many historic names are available. The US Navy once had a system (from 1780-something) First-class ships after the States Second-class ships after main cities Third-class ships after major rivers Even as late as WWII, the USN tried to have a system. But if escort carriers were named after battles, and fleet carriers named after (whatever), the system broke down when they tried to fit a million grand old names on several hundred remaining hulls. Add in a healthy amount of boot-licking to further confuse things. (The USS Scoop Jackson? What were they thinking?) So we got a mess. Nothing wrong with that, but it is not so orderly. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/9 "2008-04-04T09:34:52Z")
[QUOTE=Apollyon] “Hotspur” is a reference to [Sir Henry Percy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotspur). [/QUOTE] And the Captain of the first _HMS Hotspur_ was one Josceline Percy of the same family (more or less – the Percy family history is a bit… complicated). Alnwick Castle, home of the Percy family, still displays two bronze Portuguese cannons that Josceline captured from the French at the battle of Vimiero in 1808. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/10 "2008-04-04T11:24:54Z")
There was only one USA battleship never named after a state- it was- the Kearsage. UK vessels were often named after what sort they were - as in Flower class were named after a flower. In earlier days the First Lord would submit names for approval to the monarch. Churchill submitted the name Pitt (after a Prime Minister) to George V. George was aware of the slang that the sailors would call the vessel and vetoed it. Churchill believed such a thought was below the Royal mind. Churchill also nominated “Oliver Cromwell” which was also knocked back as he had cut the head off a few ancestors. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/11 "2008-04-04T13:53:22Z")
Looking over the lists of US Navy names…[USS Prinz Eugen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Prinz_Eugen#USS_Prinz_Eugen) was a pretty unique one 🙂 . After that, freak name wise, we’ve got (or had, in most cases), the USS… A-1 (No kidding—according to the article, that was the name) Alarcity Alaskan (Not “Alaska”) American Legion Arabia Anchor Brandywine Brittania Cactus Caliph Cockatoo Coeur de Lion Cowpens Cromwell Cyclops England Fair American Fairy Flicker Foam Grayfag Gurkha Gypsum Queen Hunchback Human Ice Boat Inch Industry Iron Age King Kraken Krishna Las Vegas Victory Moosbrugger Moose Mount Olympus Nero Nucleus Ostrich Ostfriesland (Under new management) Queen of France Stromboli Stump Suncock Terror Tickler Pyro Shangri-La [Taney](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_B._Taney) Wahoo Water Witch West Mahomet Whippoowill Wolverine (an aircraft carrier, no less) War Hawk War Bug Winston Churchill Zebra Zeppelin Zouave (And yes, I know the deep, symbolic, and dutifully appropriate backstory behind some of these names. And to be fair, some of the names were very old, and/or attached to somewhat “less glamorous” ships. But I am not always a fair man.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/12 "2008-04-04T14:18:11Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Certainly being in charge of ship-naming must be the best job in any navy. The Royal Navy simply has no system. Few new names are added when so many historic names are available. The US Navy once had a system (from 1780-something) First-class ships after the States Second-class ships after main cities Third-class ships after major rivers [/QUOTE] [Here’s a good breakdown of the US Navy ship naming conventions, past and present.](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/names.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/13 "2008-04-04T14:39:08Z")
Yes, but the present system is really no system at all. Look at the AKRs. They take the names of stars, capes (the kind where land projects into the sea) and “various other names.” The most famous of these is the USNS Bob (I’m a supply ship) Hope. Really no system at all. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/14 "2008-04-04T15:40:02Z")
[QUOTE=Apollyon] From the House of Commons [Hansard written answers](http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/vo031104/text/31104w24.htm) of Nov. 2003: Wiki’s [RN Ship Names](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ship_names_of_the_Royal_Navy) index is a treasure trove of marvelously flavourful names. Some of my particular favourites are: Revenge, Inflexible, Warspite, and Arrogant. “Hotspur” is a reference to [Sir Henry Percy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotspur). [/QUOTE] Thanks for the excellent reference-anyone know why a warship would be named after a fictional, blood-drinking monster?? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/15 "2008-04-04T15:45:34Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Thanks for the excellent reference-anyone know why a warship would be named after a fictional, blood-drinking monster?? [/QUOTE] “V” class. [V and W-class destroyer - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_and_W_class_destroyer) Seems like they had to come up with names for 28 destroyers, all of which had to start with the letter “v”. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/16 "2008-04-04T15:51:23Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Thanks for the excellent reference-anyone know why a warship would be named after a fictional, blood-drinking monster?? [/QUOTE] The first HMS Vampire, was a V-class destroyer, it became HMAS Vampire when it was transferred to the RAN from the RN. The initial 5 V-class destroyers where: Valhalla, Valkyrie, Valentine, Valorous and Vampire. Can you see a pattern? 🙂 ETA: D’oh **mlees** beat me! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/17 "2008-04-04T15:55:55Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Thanks for the excellent reference-anyone know why a warship would be named after a fictional, blood-drinking monster?? [/QUOTE] 'Cause it’s scary? Consider the British _Flower_-class corvettes from WW2, which bore such laughably unmacho names as HMS _Azalea, Begonia, Buttercup, Candytuft, Cowslip, Dahlia, Heliotrope, Honeysuckle, Nasturtium, Petunia, Primrose, Snowflake, Tulip_, and _Verbena_. It’s like something out of Gilbert & Sullivan. How could a proud, salty Jack Tar even hold his head up when he had to tell people ahore the name of his ship? Naming conventions really have broken down in the U.S. Navy, often due to political considerations. It’s ridiculous that we have supercarriers named after late members of Congress whom most people have never heard of, like _Carl Vinson_ and _John C. Stennis_, along with genuine greats like _George Washington_ and _Abraham Lincoln_. On the other hand, the Cleveland Civil War Roundtable, of which I’m a member, has been trying for several years (without success) to persuade the Navy to name a sub of the USS _Virginia_ class after the famed Civil War ironclad USS _Monitor_, which fought the original CSS _Virginia_ to a draw in 1862. The _Monitor_ is one of the most famous ships in U.S. history, but there hasn’t been a ship of that name in the fleet since an assault transport decommissioned not long after WW2. But we’ve got a _Bob Hope_. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/18 "2008-04-04T16:07:44Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] How could a proud, salty Jack Tar even hold his head up when he had to tell people ahore the name of his ship? [/QUOTE] I’m willing to bet that once a couple of jokers had their teeth knocked out, no one else made fun of Flower-class sailors. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/19 "2008-04-04T16:09:21Z")
Hmm. Monitor is also a word for a _type_ of ship now, too. (Just like “Dreadnought” came to be a word that defines a whole warship type.) That may seem to be a check mark against the use of the name. What is also not done much is the American-Indian word/names that never saw repeats, like the _USS Winnebago_ (sic), _Chickasaw_, and _Sebago_. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860/20 "2008-04-04T16:17:21Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Thanks for the excellent reference-anyone know why a warship would be named after a fictional, blood-drinking monster?? [/QUOTE] Are you implying that, as a ship name, _Vampire_ sucks? Sailboat [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naming-of-rn-warships/443860.md?page=2)