# Nancy should hold on to Articles of Impeachment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079 "2019-12-19T14:27:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/21 "2019-12-19T16:05:03Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The Senators take an oath of office when they are sworn in to support and defend the constitution.That is the only oath they take. There is no oath to be impartial in an impeachment trial. Bullshit. Rule XXV of the Senate rules for impeachment trials states that all Senators must make this following oath: > [@](#): > > “I solemnly swear(or affirm) that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of (the person being impeached), now pending, I will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws: So help me God” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/22 "2019-12-19T16:15:07Z")
From a Fox News source: [_Fifteen things you need to know about how Senate impeachment trials work_](https://kdvr.com/2019/12/18/15-things-you-need-to-know-about-how-senate-impeachment-trials-work/). Grandstanding and speechifying are totally out, and the accuser gets first and last say. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/23 "2019-12-19T16:18:29Z")
Don’t give the Republicans an easy out. Send the impeachment articles to the Senate and make them hold a hearing. Withholding the articles would just hand McConnell a cheap win. Record McConnell when he swears an oath that he will be impartial. Next November, run a campaign ad showing the recording of McConnell saying he won’t be impartial with the recording of him swearing the oath. Ask Kentucky voters if they’re okay with a Senator who takes false oaths and lies to God. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/24 "2019-12-19T16:23:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Don’t give the Republicans an easy out. Send the impeachment articles to the Senate and make them hold a hearing. Withholding the articles would just hand McConnell a cheap win. > > Record McConnell when he swears an oath that he will be impartial. Next November, run a campaign ad showing the recording of McConnell saying he won’t be impartial with the recording of him swearing the oath. Ask Kentucky voters if they’re okay with a Senator who takes false oaths and lies to God. Won’t work. The only promise they care about is the promise to fuck over the Democrats. You think they don’t know what he is by now? If he takes that oath he has already promised to break, take it immediately to the SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/25 "2019-12-19T16:25:07Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The Senators are not jurors: > > [When a chief justice reminded senators in an impeachment trial that they were not jurors](https://theconversation.com/when-a-chief-justice-reminded-senators-in-an-impeachment-trial-that-they-were-not-jurors-128984) From that link: > [@](#): > > “The Senate is not **simply** a jury,” he ruled. “It is a court in this case.” > > Rehnquist thus admonished the House Managers “to refrain from referring to the Senators as jurors.” For the balance of the trial, they were called “triers of law and fact.” (bolding mine) The bolded word “simply” affirms that Senators are jurors, but they are more than jurors. Just as we could dismiss a juror or recuse a judge or prosecutor with conflicts of interest, it’s appropriate to push for recusal/dismissal of any Senator who has openly stated they intend to violate their oath of impartiality as described in rule XXV of the Senate rules for impeachment trials. I don’t expect that would actually happen, but it would be pretty wild to watch Lindsey Graham put his hand on a Bible, look John Roberts in the eye, and lie under oath with all present aware of this fact. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/26 "2019-12-19T16:29:31Z")
The Senate can change its rules by simple majority, correct? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/27 "2019-12-19T16:30:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Won’t work. The only promise they care about is the promise to fuck over the Democrats. You think they don’t know what he is by now? If he takes that oath he has already promised to break, take it immediately to the SCOTUS. This. McConnell and Graham are on record (video) bearing witness to their own hypocrisy. It doesn’t seem to be having a negative impact on them with respect to Republican voter support. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/28 "2019-12-19T16:31:17Z")
If a high number of Senators purposefully disqualify themselves can a mistrial be declared? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/29 "2019-12-19T16:32:47Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The Senate can change its rules by simple majority, correct? I don’t know if the oath itself can be changed. Would you want them to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/30 "2019-12-19T16:35:05Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The Senate can change its rules by simple majority, correct? You want them to make a rule that its ok to violate an oath? You ok with Democrats getting to ignore their oaths from now on too? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/31 "2019-12-19T16:38:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t know if the oath itself can be changed. Would you want them to do so? Why can’t rule XXV be changed, like any other? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/32 "2019-12-19T16:40:49Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why can’t rule XXV be changed, like any other? I already stated in post #29 that I don’t know if it can be changed. Again, would you approve of such a change? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/33 "2019-12-19T16:45:40Z")
It is pretty ironic that there is a right wing group that calls themselves Oath Keepers and now the right is saying oaths don’t matter, or that we should do away with them. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/34 "2019-12-19T16:49:36Z")
Pelosi should delay sending them over until the middle of August. I.e., after the Democratic convention but just before the Republican convention. Minds blown. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/35 "2019-12-19T16:51:30Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > I think Nancy needs to ask the SCOTUS to decide if McConnell and Lindsey Graham are fit to be a members of the jury. Can the Supreme Court tell the Senate how to conduct business? ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/36 "2019-12-19T16:54:16Z")
Pelosi should let McConnell run whatever sham of a trial he wants. The last thing the Democrats need is for the Republicans to be able to say Trump was acquitted in a fair trial. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/37 "2019-12-19T17:01:42Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Pelosi should let McConnell run whatever sham of a trial he wants. The last thing the Democrats need is for the Republicans to be able to say Trump was acquitted in a fair trial. The last thing Democrats need is for Republicans to lengthen the list of things they got away with, which would only strengthen the Republican base and discourage Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/38 "2019-12-19T17:03:34Z")
The oath is to “do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws”. That doesn’t imply that he has to be an “impartial juror”. He - along with about 90+ other senators - feels he already has enough information to make up his mind as what “impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws” is in this case, so he is not approaching the senate trial with a truly open mind. There are very few senators whose votes are truly up in the air, on either side. When Schumer negotiates for the Democrat side, he’s not asking because he genuinely wants to be able to determine how he’s going to vote. He already knows how he is going to vote, and he wants the trial to be as advantageous as possible to the position he already knows he is going to take. He is not any more of an impartial juror than McConnell. McConnell is just being honest about it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/39 "2019-12-19T17:06:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The oath is to “do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws”. That doesn’t imply that he has to be an “impartial juror”. He - along with about 90+ other senators - feels he already has enough information to make up his mind as what “impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws” is in this case, so he is not approaching the senate trial with a truly open mind. > > There are very few senators whose votes are truly up in the air, on either side. When Schumer negotiates for the Democrat side, he’s not asking because he genuinely wants to be able to determine how he’s going to vote. He already knows how he is going to vote, and he wants the trial to be as advantageous as possible to the position he already knows he is going to take. He is not any more of an impartial juror than McConnell. McConnell is just being honest about it. Publicly stating that he fully intends to break that vow makes him _honest_ in your eyes? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079/40 "2019-12-19T17:06:42Z")
How does an openly declared partial juror do impartial justice? That makes no sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nancy-should-hold-on-to-articles-of-impeachment/845079.md?page=3)