# Nanny State FDA Wants To Kill The Cigar Trade **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166 "2011-12-05T19:51:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/1 "2011-12-05T19:51:52Z")
The source is obviously biased but the basic information is accurate. [http://www.famous-smoke.com/blog/post.cfm/fda-regulation-the-end-of-cigars](http://www.famous-smoke.com/blog/post.cfm/fda-regulation-the-end-of-cigars) This is ridiculous. Banning walk-in humidors? I’ve **never** seen a kid in a cigar shop/humidor. So is it just protecting adults from their own preferences by hassling them to death? This is modern-day Puritanism (what was the characterization of a Puritan – a person with the haunting fear that someone, somewhere is enjoying themself?). I don’t smoke a lot but enjoy a good cigar, and the shops are almost uniformly staffed by friendly, knowledgeable guys who are happy to welcome you to browse the cigars and join the regulars for a smoke. And most of them are family owned or otherwise small businesses. Great timing, guys! Maybe I don’t have much of a debate and this is RO, but I’ve never been much of a Pit denizen, so . . . anyone care to defend this stupid proposal? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/2 "2011-12-05T19:57:53Z")
How do you know the basic information is accurate? Is there a link to the proposed regulation somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/3 "2011-12-05T19:58:27Z")
What “information” is “accurate” in that article? I don’t see any reference to pending legislation beyond what it calls the Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act - which it doesn’t provide a link to. And I don’t see anything about new FDA regulations either. I suppose it’s true that “Deputy Secretary Bill Corr worked as an anti-smoking lobbyist.” I attempted to do some research on my own, and the Sibelius quote seems to be from her report, perhaps attached to a message from the Surgeon General. Maybe it’s referring to Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act of 2009? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/4 "2011-12-05T20:00:20Z")
I don’t smoke and thus am not personally invested, but I’d be curious to see what the actual regulations being proposed are (rather than just an alarmist summary on a cigar vendor’s website). ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/5 "2011-12-05T20:01:47Z")
So far as I can tell, the humidor ban is purely hypothetical. A 2009 act gave the FDA regulatory power over cigars. They’re due to release those regulations soon, but haven’t yet. Some tabacco lobbyist has been saying they might ban public display of cigars, and that this would have a negative effect on cigar-shops ability to function. This has been picked up by smoking afficianado sites as if its an actual regulation, rather then a hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/6 "2011-12-05T20:02:46Z")
Here are some of the new regulations from the FDA: [http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/ProtectingKidsfromTobacco/RegsRestrictingSale/ucm205020.htm](http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/ProtectingKidsfromTobacco/RegsRestrictingSale/ucm205020.htm) Don’t see anything about walk-in humidors in there, but I haven’t dug too deep. Maybe you can point us to the regulation, Huerta? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/7 "2011-12-05T20:08:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How do you know the basic information is accurate? Is there a link to the proposed regulation somewhere? Here’s the text of the Act. It was not initially extended to cigars, but multiple news reports are saying FDA is now pushing for that. > **[Text of H.R. 1256 (111th): Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act...](https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr1256/text)** > > Text of H.R. 1256 (111th): Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco … as of Aug. 20, 2010 (Passed Congress version). H.R. 1256 (111th): Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/8 "2011-12-05T20:10:02Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Here’s the text of the Act. It was not initially extended to cigars, but multiple news reports are saying FDA is now pushing for that. > > [Text of H.R. 1256 (111th): Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (Passed Congress version) - GovTrack.us](http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1256) Can you quote the part about banning walk-in humidors? Which news reports are you talking about? My google efforts bring up only blogs. And I’m not trying to trash cigar smokers. I usually have one every week or so, and order mine through the mail, so I would be affected. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/9 "2011-12-05T21:19:11Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > This is ridiculous. Banning walk-in humidors? I’ve **never** seen a kid in a cigar shop/humidor. So is it just protecting adults from their own preferences by hassling them to death? After a fair bit of googling, it seems that FDA regulations ban tobacco sales from vending machines or self-service displays that are accessible to those under 18. I suppose there could be walk-in humidors that could be accessible to those under 18, but like you, I haven’t seen any. So it seems that the regulation might ban something that is quite rare, and some cigar aficionados are intent on scaring people with slippery slope arguments: “First they came for the humidors, next there will be summary executions of tobacco farmers by jack-booted BATF SWAT teams.” So, [this](http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm279366.htm) is what the FDA seems to be doing with its regulatory powers right now, as far as I can tell. It pretty much involves making sure that retailers are checking IDs, no sales of single cigarettes, no vending machines, and no candy-flavored tobacco. Now, I’m not sure how much the ban on mint chocolate chip-flavored smokes will stop kids from smoking, but I would turn the tables on the OP: none of the actions that the FDA talks about perusing in that particular website seem onerous or excessive. So why don’t you defend your outrage? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/10 "2011-12-05T22:08:48Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So it seems that the regulation might ban something that is quite rare, and some cigar aficionados are intent on scaring people with slippery slope arguments: “First they came for the humidors, next there will be summary executions of tobacco farmers by jack-booted BATF SWAT teams.” As much as I dislike tobacco smoke, the ability of smokers to smoke in a lot of areas has been curtailed over the years. First they couldn’t smoke in the workplace, then they couldn’t smoke in bars or restaurants and now they can’t smoke in a lot of outdoor areas. (I support the indoor smoking ban.) You might call it a slippery slope but I call it a trend. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/11 "2011-12-05T22:32:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > After a fair bit of googling, it seems that FDA regulations ban tobacco sales from vending machines or self-service displays that are accessible to those under 18. I suppose there could be walk-in humidors that could be accessible to those under 18, but like you, I haven’t seen any. So it seems that the regulation might ban something that is quite rare, and some cigar aficionados are intent on scaring people with slippery slope arguments: “First they came for the humidors, next there will be summary executions of tobacco farmers by jack-booted BATF SWAT teams.” Well lets go down memory lane and see where the slippery slope started in regards to tobacco. First it was banned on airplanes, then in the office. when it was suggested that this was leading to a ban in places like restaurants and bars we were given the “scaring people with slippery slope arguments” argument. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/12 "2011-12-05T23:06:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Now, I’m not sure how much the ban on mint chocolate chip-flavored smokes will stop kids from smoking Just to be clear here, the FDA has banned any flavored tobacco (except menthol) so it goes far beyond just “candy-flavored”. I’m not a smoker but occasionally liked to have a clove cigarette because of the taste. That’s no longer possible. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/13 "2011-12-05T23:11:13Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Just to be clear here, the FDA has banned any flavored tobacco (except menthol) so it goes far beyond just “candy-flavored”. I’m not a smoker but occasionally liked to have a clove cigarette because of the taste. That’s no longer possible. This is true, and I agree that it is overreach and "nanny-state"ism. I can’t imagine that kids are starting smoking because they love the taste of cloves… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/14 "2011-12-05T23:20:08Z")
So the OP was way off base here? It’s almost like conservative media is full of people complaining about things that aren’t real. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/15 "2011-12-05T23:22:31Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Just to be clear here, the FDA has banned any flavored tobacco (except menthol) so it goes far beyond just “candy-flavored”. I’m not a smoker but occasionally liked to have a clove cigarette because of the taste. That’s no longer possible. you mean pipe tobacco is banned? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/16 "2011-12-05T23:24:03Z")
Nah, I wouldn’t say he was _way_ off base - just fell for a hyped-up lobbying effort. This happens pretty regularly on all sides, particularly from heavily-invested parties. The difficulty is in sussing out where the real complaints (perhaps the banning of certain products like clove cigarettes) diverge from the imagined fears (“kill the cigar trade”). I think we’ve done a pretty good job of that in this thread - hopefully it assuages some of Huerta’s fears while giving him more grounded complaints. On preview - no **Magiver** , the ban on flavored tobacco only seems to cover its use in cigarettes. So you could always roll your own clove cigs if you wanted to. Flavored tobacco regs here: [http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/ProtectingKidsfromTobacco/FlavoredTobacco/default.htm](http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/ProtectingKidsfromTobacco/FlavoredTobacco/default.htm) ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/17 "2011-12-05T23:32:10Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > On preview - no **Magiver** , the ban on flavored tobacco only seems to cover its use in cigarettes. So you could always roll your own clove cigs if you wanted to. Yes and no. You’re correct that the ban only applies to cigarettes, but loose tobacco intended to be used in cigarettes is considered a cigarette for the purposes of the regulation. ([cite](http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/ProtectingKidsfromTobacco/FlavoredTobacco/ucm183228.htm)) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/18 "2011-12-05T23:38:50Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So why don’t you defend your outrage? Because it’s recreational? I copped to that originally you must admit. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/19 "2011-12-06T00:02:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you mean pipe tobacco is banned? AFAIK, the clove cigarettes thing is a case of protectionism, not health concerns. At least, it has been [successfully challenged as such at the WTO](http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/cases_e/ds406_e.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/20 "2011-12-06T01:36:39Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Because it’s recreational? I copped to that originally you must admit. > [@FDA web page](#): > > ``` > age and ID verification > requirements for labeling and advertising of smokeless tobacco products > restrictions on the sale of single cigarettes > a ban on certain candy and fruit-flavored cigarettes > prohibited self service displays and vending machines > > ``` I’m not sure I’m understanding you correctly. This seems to be what the FDA is actually doing. And you oppose the FDA doing these things because smoking is recreational? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166.md?page=2)