# Nanny State FDA Wants To Kill The Cigar Trade **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166 "2011-12-05T19:51:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/21 "2011-12-06T02:25:58Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > I don’t smoke a lot but enjoy a good cigar, and the shops are almost uniformly staffed by friendly, knowledgeable guys who are happy to welcome you to browse the cigars and join the regulars for a smoke. And most of them are family owned or otherwise small businesses. Great timing, guys! There is proposals, and then there are trial balloons sent up to see what way the wind is blowing, Cigars by themselves are not a big deal, but the anti tobbacco party wants to end a life style that shows tobbacco in a postive light, So not only do they ban smoking, they also ban the sponsor ship of a number of different activities. Sooner or later, cigars would have shown up on someones radar, both the product and the lifestyle that it either promotes or is thought to promote. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/22 "2011-12-06T02:26:43Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Yes and no. You’re correct that the ban only applies to cigarettes, but loose tobacco intended to be used in cigarettes is considered a cigarette for the purposes of the regulation. ([cite](http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/ProtectingKidsfromTobacco/FlavoredTobacco/ucm183228.htm)) Thank you for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/23 "2011-12-06T02:43:19Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not sure I’m understanding you correctly. This seems to be what the FDA is actually doing. And you oppose the FDA doing these things because smoking is recreational? His outrage is recreational. I believe that means that he does not intend to defend his hyperbolic title, nor does he intend to explain the fact that the FDA is only **proposing** to alter some regulations on cigars (a cancer causing product) at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/24 "2011-12-06T02:54:48Z")
Ah, I misunderstood. I guess there is no debate here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/25 "2011-12-06T03:02:36Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Because it’s recreational? I copped to that originally you must admit. I don’t think you know the meaning of term “Recreational Outrage”. It doesn’t mean outrage at fictitious things. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/26 "2011-12-06T03:14:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t think you know the meaning of term “Recreational Outrage”. It doesn’t mean outrage at fictitious things. But I was going to be recreationally outraged at Newt Gingrich’s study of Satanic magic. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/27 "2011-12-06T13:07:07Z")
If you really want freedom to buy cigars, why not leave the low-hanging target of FDA who wants to make sure that kids don’t get addicted and instead go after the real scandal of Cuban cigars being banned in the US because of the lobby efforts of rich Cubans in exile? You’re missing a whole world of cigars just because of a small group, and making smugglers rich. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/28 "2011-12-06T14:39:06Z")
That’s simply a byproduct of the ban on all Cuban-sourced goods. In the grand scheme of things, it hardly matters that you can’t buy a Cohiba in the US when you can’t buy pork or milk or crude oil or anything else from Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/29 "2011-12-06T15:33:20Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > This is ridiculous. Banning walk-in humidors? I’ve **never** seen a kid in a cigar shop/humidor. So is it just protecting adults from their own preferences by hassling them to death? I remember hearing the same alarmism when they banned the walk-in microwave oven. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/30 "2011-12-06T16:07:24Z")
One thing this thread has confirmed for me: When someone uses the term “nanny state” in a post or a title (in a non-ironic way), its usually a safe bet that they have the facts wrong, or have misinterpreted something. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/31 "2011-12-06T16:19:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s simply a byproduct of the ban on all Cuban-sourced goods. In the grand scheme of things, it hardly matters that you can’t buy a Cohiba in the US when you can’t buy pork or milk or crude oil or anything else from Cuba. And believe me, you haven’t lived until you’ve tried authentic Cuban _pierna de cerdo con leche y crudo_. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/32 "2011-12-06T18:27:36Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > This is ridiculous. Banning walk-in humidors? I’ve **never** seen a kid in a cigar shop/humidor. So is it just protecting adults from their own preferences by hassling them to death? That’s easy. It’s to Protect The Employees. Think of the poor minimum wage stock boy who has to restock the humidor while you and your rich buddies are puffing away. Why, he would die of lung cancer before he got home that night. Shame on you. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/33 "2011-12-06T18:51:28Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > That’s easy. It’s to Protect The Employees. Think of the poor minimum wage stock boy who has to restock the humidor while you and your rich buddies are puffing away. Why, he would die of lung cancer before he got home that night. Shame on you. Is this an example of more made-up stuff to be outraged at? In other words, is it a made-up reason for something that never existed in the first place, as it was not even in the FDA regulations? Are you serious or are you being ironic or what? It’s so hard to tell these days… ---
**Author:** ![Janetda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@Janetda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janetda)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/34 "2011-12-07T07:51:21Z")
The FDA did announce it’s intent to regulate cigars the same as cigarettes. This would include flavors, face-to-face sales only, self-serve displays and smoking indoors. In response, enthusiasts have come up with HR1639 the Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act. This Act would essentially tell the FDA to stay away from cigars. The following can found at: [Federal Register, Volume 75 Issue 79 (Monday, April 26, 2010)](http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/2010-8934.htm) 1. CIGARS SUBJECT TO THE FAMILY SMOKING PREVENTION AND TOBACCO CONTROL ACT Legal Authority: 21 USC 301 et seq, The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act; PL 111-31, The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act Abstract: The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (the Tobacco Control Act) provides FDA authority to regulate cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, roll-your-own tobacco, and smokeless tobacco. Section 901 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, as amended by the Tobacco Control Act, permits FDA to issue regulations deeming other tobacco products to be subject to the Tobacco Control Act. This proposed rule would deem cigars to be subject to the Tobacco Control Act and include provisions to address public health concerns raised by cigars. Timetable: * * * Action Date FR Cite * * * NPRM 06/00/10 Regulatory Flexibility Analysis Required: Yes Agency Contact: May Nelson, Regulatory Counsel, Department of Health and Human Services, Food and Drug Administration, Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, 5100 Paint Branch Parkway, College Park, MD 20740 Phone: 877 287-1373 Fax: 240 276-3904 Email: [may.nelson@fda.hhs.gov](mailto:may.nelson@fda.hhs.gov) RIN: 0910-AG38 [[Page 21795]] * * * Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Final Rule Stage Food and Drug Administration (FDA) * * * ---
**Author:** ![Janetda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@Janetda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janetda)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/35 "2011-12-07T08:07:54Z")
Here’s a pretty good blog post that explains it all pretty well: > **[FDA TO REGULATE CIGARS????](http://kevin-wardsworld.blogspot.com/2011/11/fda-to-regulate-cigars.html)** > > Conservatism, History,Politics,Film,Movies,Republican,News,Elections, ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/36 "2011-12-07T12:43:00Z")
Yet another blog post… and an ugly and buggy one at that. Look, we understand your concern. And we are all well aware of the pending Act (I mentioned it in the third post in this thread). We have also acknowledged that current legislation allows the regulation of cigars and cigar tobacco. But there is nothing in the current FDA regulations about banning walk-in humidors, smoking indoors, or person-to-person sales. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/37 "2011-12-07T14:17:31Z")
> [@Janetda](#): > > The FDA did announce it’s intent to regulate cigars the same as cigarettes. I’m struggling to figure out why this would be a bad thing. They’re basically the same thing – tobacco wrapped in something, that is subsequently lit, smoked and smells like shit. In fact, about the only difference that I can identify is that, while cigarettes do indeed smell like shit, cigars actually smell a little more like shit dipped in sewage than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/38 "2011-12-07T18:20:07Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Is this an example of more made-up stuff to be outraged at? In other words, is it a made-up reason for something that never existed in the first place, as it was not even in the FDA regulations? > > Are you serious or are you being ironic or what? It’s so hard to tell these days… No. I was simply parroting the argument that anti-smoking groups use to counter the argument for allowing smoking in bars. The argument is similar to the OP: only adults are allowed in bars, everyone walking in knows that smoking is permitted, etc. The retort to that argument is that the poor bartenders and servers working in these places should not be subjected to second hand smoke. I disagree with the argument, but the OPs statement that only adults go in humidors therefore smoking should be permitted, has been tried and failed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/39 "2011-12-07T18:29:24Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > No. I was simply parroting the argument that anti-smoking groups use to counter the argument for allowing smoking in bars. The argument is similar to the OP: only adults are allowed in bars, everyone walking in knows that smoking is permitted, etc. > > The retort to that argument is that the poor bartenders and servers working in these places should not be subjected to second hand smoke. > > I disagree with the argument, but the OPs statement that only adults go in humidors therefore smoking should be permitted, has been tried and failed. Walk-in humidors are generally not for smoking. They’re for look at cigars, and picking out the one you want. If the feds banned smoking in walk-in humidors, it might piss a few people off, but it wouldn’t change much of anything. The OP is claiming that the feds want to ban walk-in humidors. That’s entirely different from banning smoking in walk-in humidors. And besides, there isn’t any need for an employee even to be in the humidor other than for security reasons. Cameras can do that. ---
**Author:** ![Janetda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@Janetda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janetda)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166/40 "2011-12-07T18:50:05Z")
I don’t get what the confusion is here. If the FDA regulates cigars the same as cigarettes then humidors will be outlawed as they are considered self-serve displays. You will not be able to touch or smell a cigar before you purchase it from behind a counter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-state-fda-wants-to-kill-the-cigar-trade/605166.md?page=3)