# Nanny States and Covid Vaccines: Hijack of NZ smoking thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 12, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018 "2021-12-12T20:36:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/41 "2021-12-13T20:47:34Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Whoops, goalposts have already been moved - now the only way to oppose the vaccine is to riot and burn things down. There are numerous examples of that behavior too, of course: [Germany: Arsonists target COVID vaccine center in eastern town](https://www.dw.com/en/germany-arsonists-target-covid-vaccine-center-in-eastern-town/a-59189175) [Covid vaccine point set on fire in Poland](https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/08/02/covid-vaccine-point-set-on-fire-in-poland-as-government-condemns-anti-vax-terror/) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/42 "2021-12-13T20:55:01Z")
And [here](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/doctors-debunk-9-popular-covid-19-vaccine-myths-and-conspiracy-theories#Myth:-The-COVID-19-vaccine-makes-you-magnetic) are some examples of idiotic counterfactual conspiracy theories about the COVID vaccines that large numbers of idiotically-inclined people believe, which causes them to, yes, oppose the COVID vaccine: > [@](#): > > In early June, Dr. Sherri Tenpenny, based in Cleveland, claimed that COVID-19 vaccines could turn people into magnets due to 5G telecommunication towers. […] > > Myth: The COVID-19 vaccines are causing COVID-19 variants […] > > Myth: The COVID-19 vaccine makes you infertile > > Myth: The government put a microchip in COVID-19 vaccines to track you > > Myth: The COVID-19 vaccines rewrite your DNA > > Myth: The COVID-19 vaccine will cause long-term complications People who believe these and other bullshit myths are promoting them as arguments that the COVID vaccine is objectively bad. Not just “eh I shouldn’t be forced to get it if for any reason I don’t want to”, but “this is bad and dangerous and should be opposed”. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/43 "2021-12-13T21:21:31Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > And in a more nuanced case mothers who are afraid to get their kids vaccinated because the fathers who couldn’t give two shits about the kids welfare otherwise will break out the shotguns or baseball if they find out the kid got the COVID vaccine. Which is exactly what us happening in my house with my roommate’s child. So now said mother isn’t getting her 50% custody and it’s breaking her heart. Vaccine assholes abound. I’m trusting karma will eventually catch up. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/44 "2021-12-13T21:25:12Z")
We should double monkey punch this digression to somewhere it belongs. I suggest Cleveland, but I guess the Pit will do. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/45 "2021-12-13T21:33:33Z")
Oops! Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/46 "2021-12-13T21:36:11Z")
And “Sorry” from me as well. It was inadvertent~I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/47 "2021-12-14T00:56:17Z")
The last point is pretty unlikely given the decades of mRNA research but is not impossible. The weakness in the argument is not the existence of side effects, now know to be rare, but the much worse short and long term problems caused by Covid. Now if you’ll excuse me, I am hungry and thirsty and about to put something into my body. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/48 "2021-12-14T12:05:35Z")
Well, first time I start a thread by mod action. 🙂 > [@Magiver](#): > > That there is 1 person in 329,500,000 makes it statistically irrelevant. You’re playing a game of absolutism. There is a lot of ignorance in that post, more ironic when one looks at who are the politicians that rely on absolutism to push their moronic point of view that impose danger on others. [https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Biden-vaccine-rule-for-health-workers-blocked-in-16660281.php](https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Biden-vaccine-rule-for-health-workers-blocked-in-16660281.php) [Bold added:] > The preliminary injunction by St. Louis-based U.S. District Judge Matthew Schelp applies to a coalition of suing states that includes Alaska, Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming. **All those states have either a Republican attorney general or governor.** Similar lawsuits also are pending in other states. And it is not hard to find examples of what the right is calling an act of the “nanny state” > **[Opinion | Why conservative talk radio hosts keep dying from Covid](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/talk-radio-s-covid-death-trend-metastasization-conservative-media-culture-ncna1279023)** > > But there is one final element driving talk radio’s doubts about vaccinations and masks — the bottom line. > And the opposition to vaccination and mask mandates is simply a metastasization of this culture. Challenging elites and the imposition of government power is baked into the DNA of talk radio. Hosts have spent decades decrying the “nanny state” and reminding listeners that they have far more sense than government officials and highly educated elites. A government asking and pushing for vaccination efforts should never have been accused of pushing politics when there is a public health issue involved. As for tobacco use, the new conservatives that liked to call themselves “neoliberals” have a lot of uses for their demonization of what they call the “nanny state” And [it applies to the current disdain that many on the right have regarding vaccination requirements too.](https://thehill.com/homenews/the-memo/561986-the-memo-biden-and-democrats-face-dilemma-on-vaccine-mandates) More about the harm that the talking point from the right about the “nanny state” is causing to America and other places: > **[Beware the Nanny State Neoliberal Ideology and American Health Law Reform](https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=99280)** > > Discover the detrimental impact of neoliberalism on public health law in the US. Explore how this ideology hindered efforts to reform laws on sugary drinks, motorcycle helmets, and cigarette warnings, ultimately harming public health. Uncover the... > What have we learned about the workings of ideology in law reform? For starters, it is worth repeating that although ideology, as a normatively-imbued cluster of ideas and concepts, exists in and of itself, it comes to life through its related rhetoric. Few Americans would recognize neoliberalism’s abstracted representations of government, the economy, and society in general, but the notion of a “nanny state” is most likely to ring a bell. Odd as it might seem given the appealing image of nannies in popular culture, some Americans find the notion of a “nanny state” menacing. > > Furthermore, ideological rhetoric might obscure an ideology’s relationship to socioeconomic actors and causes. Ideological rhetoric, in other words, has the power not only to provoke and inspire people but also to be useful to groups and interests that adopt the rhetoric and employ it for their own purposes. In the area of American health law reform, it is particularly clear how enamored business interests are with neoliberal rhetoric and how prepared they are to use it in advancing their interests. The beverage industry, motorcycle manufacturers, and of course Big Tobacco have employed nanny-state rhetoric to counter law reform proposals that might threaten their profits. To put it bluntly, neoliberalism’s rhetoric provides a façade behind which big business can pursue its goals. > > Most importantly—and most disturbingly—neoliberal ideology and its concomitant rhetoric, with their emphasis on individual choice and freedom, are unmindful of the socio-economic context of many contemporary public health problems. Neoliberal ideologues, for starters, do not recognize the way powerful business interests themselves severely restrict freedom of choice in their presentation and pricing of product lines. Neoliberals, in this sense, do not think much about inequality and about the vulnerability of the less fortunate to market forces. More generally, they do not appreciate (or want to acknowledge) that the health of the public is a collective, social phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/49 "2021-12-14T16:06:28Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Odd as it might seem given the appealing image of nannies in popular culture, some Americans find the notion of a “nanny state” menacing. I think the term “nanny state” is designed to catch the attention of the sort of folks who think: “I am a big strong man, and do not need a weak woman to look after me.” In part, it is an appeal to their ingrained and unexamined sexism. You certainly don’t hear the term “nanny state” when Republicans use government to tell a woman what to do with her uterus. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/50 "2021-12-14T16:56:34Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > People who believe these and other bullshit myths are promoting them as arguments that the COVID vaccine is objectively bad. Not just “eh I shouldn’t be forced to get it if for any reason I don’t want to”, but “this is bad and dangerous and should be opposed”. And as cited elsewhere, “I’m opposed to the vaccine and also want to make sure those who want it can’t get it.” That kind of defeats the “my body, my choice” argument which antivaxers co-opted from the abortion rights movement. Speaking of Rand Paul (if we must), he claims he hasn’t opposed disaster relief in other situations, just that it should be accompanied by withdrawing identical amounts of money from other programs because government spending is bad for baby Jesus. However in the case of tornado-ravaged areas of Kentucky, I don’t recall Rand Paul having cited specific funding he wanted to tap for state disaster relief. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/51 "2021-12-14T17:21:38Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I don’t recall Rand Paul having cited specific funding he wanted to tap for state disaster relief. A modest proposal: Take the money for Kentucky disaster relief out of the pool of money that is used to subsidize the fossil fuel industry. A 12.5 BILLION dollar disaster relief program would only cost ONE WEEK of the US fossil fuel subsidies. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/52 "2021-12-15T17:42:02Z")
In the latest news: [German police raid 6 homes over alleged anti-vaccine plot to kill top official](https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/12/15/german-police-carry-out-raids-over-alleged-anti-vaxxer-assassination-plot-targeting-state-officials/) I think planning to murder someone over their vaccine stance is pretty bad. Or maybe these folks were really OK with the vaccine. [This woman has encouraged her Q followers to kill people who vaccinate children.](https://vancouversun.com/news/daphne-bramham-the-absurd-and-disturbing-tragedy-of-romana-didulo) These people exist. They are out there, ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/53 "2021-12-15T19:11:12Z")
So absolutist! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/54 "2021-12-15T22:58:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > [This woman has encouraged her Q followers to kill people who vaccinate children.](https://vancouversun.com/news/daphne-bramham-the-absurd-and-disturbing-tragedy-of-romana-didulo) These people exist. They are out there, That article claims that the “Queen of Canada” has mostly American followers, yet all the examples it gives of nimrods doing her bidding involve incidents in Canada. 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018/55 "2021-12-15T23:22:03Z")
They do stuff like call in threats to children’s hospitals, causing them to evacuate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nanny-states-and-covid-vaccines-hijack-of-nz-smoking-thread/956018.md?page=2)