# Napoleon and the Monastary tale: true, false, don't know? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237 "2010-03-04T03:24:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/1 "2010-03-04T03:24:07Z")
Good story I heard: Napoleon Buonaparte, (or some of his soldiers) in his excursion into Spain, went into a monastary looking for loot. The monks all said “Hey, we’re a monastary, we don’t have cash!” I know, I know. But, one of the soldiers said “Let’s pour water into the floor.” Water poured, flowed through floor like a sieve. Soldiers went downstairs and found Protestants being tortured. Soldiers, in turn, freed the Protestants, and tortured the monks to death. So, true story? Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![boilercake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@boilercake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boilercake)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/2 "2010-03-04T04:57:17Z")
Was Napolean a Protestant? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/3 "2010-03-04T05:23:27Z")
Good lord. I didn’t realize that anybody still read [Foxe’s Book of Martyrs](http://books.google.com/books?id=t1pIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1058). > [@](#): > > In 1809 Colonel Lehmanowsky was attached to that part of Napoleon’s army which was stationed at Madrid. While in the city, the Colonel used to speak freely among the people what he thought of the Priests and Jesuits, and of the Inquisition. It had been decreed by Napoleon that the Inquisition and Monasteries should be suppressed, but the decree was not executed. […] > > We passed through room after room: found all perfectly in order, richly furnished, with altars and crucifixes, and wax candles in abundance, but could discover no evidence of iniquity being practiced there-nothing of those peculiar features which we expected to find in an Inquisition. We found splendid paintings, and a rich and extensive library. Here was beauty and splendor, and the most perfect order on which my eyes had ever rested. The architecture, the proportions, were perfect. The floors of wood were scoured and highly polished. the marble floors were arranged with a strict regard to order. There was everything to please the eye and gratify a cultivated taste. Where, then, were those horrid instruments of torture of which we had been told, and where were those dungeons in which human beings were said to be buried alive? We searched in vain. The holy fathers assured us that they had been belied; that we had seen all; and I was prepared to give up the search, convinced the Inquisition was different from all others of which I had heard. > > But Colonel De Lile was not so ready as myself to give up the search, and said to me: ‘Colonel, you are commander today, and as you say, so must it be; but, if you will be advised by me, let this marble floor be examined. Let water be brought and poured upon it, and we will watch and see if there is any place through which it passes more freely than others.’ I replied to him, ‘Do as you please, Colonel,’ and ordered water to be brought. The slabs were large and beautifully polished. When the water had been poured on the floor, much to the dissatisfaction of the Inquisitors, a careful examination was made of every seam in the floor, to see if the water passed through. Presently, Col. De Lile exclaimed that he had found it. By the side of one of these marble slabs the water passed through fast, as though there was an opening beneath. All hands were now at work for further discovery. Officers with their swords, and soldiers with their bayonets, sought to clear out the seam and pry up the slab; others, with the butt of their muskets, struck the slab with all their might to break it, while the Priests remonstrated against our desecrating the holy and beautiful house! > > While thus engaged, a soldier struck a spring, and a marble slab flew up. Then the faces of the Inquisitors grew pale as did Belshazzar when the handwriting appeared on the wall. They trembled all over. Beneath the marble slab, now partly up, there was a staircase. I stepped to the altar and took one of the candles, four feet in length, which was burning, that I might explore the room below. As I was doing this, I was arrested by one of the Inquisitors, who laid his hand gently on my arm and with a very demure look said, ‘My son, you must not take those lights with your bloody hand; they are holy.’ ‘Well’ I said, ‘I will take a holy thing to shed light on iniquity; I will take the responsibility. I proceeded down the staircase. As we reached the foot of the stairs, we entered a large square room-The Hall of Judgment. In the center of it was a large block and a chain fastened to it. On this they had been accustomed to place the accused, chained to his seat. On one side of the room was an elevated seat-The Throne of Judgment. This the Inquisitor General occupied, and on either side were seats, less elevated, for the holy fathers when engaged in the solemn business of the Holy Inquisition. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/4 "2010-03-04T06:14:59Z")
> [@boilercake](#): > > Was Napolean a Protestant? Um, I can’t really recall. But, as i understand it, the soldiers, rather than being upset that their co-religionists were being hurt, just sort of went mad at the inhumanity of the hypocritical priests. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/5 "2010-03-04T06:17:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Good lord. I didn’t realize that anybody still read [Foxe’s Book of Martyrs](http://books.google.com/books?id=t1pIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1058). Excellent, thank you very much. Was there a follow up as to whether there was punishment upon the priests? thanks, hh ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/6 "2010-03-04T09:18:02Z")
You might start by reading this about the book: > **[Foxe's Book of Martyrs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxe's_Book_of_Martyrs)** > > The Actes and Monuments (full title: Actes and Monuments of these Latter and Perillous Days, Touching Matters of the Church), popularly known as Foxe's Book of Martyrs, is a work of Protestant history and martyrology by Protestant English historian John Foxe, first published in 1563 by John Day. > It includes a polemical account of the sufferings of Protestants under the Catholic Church, with particular emphasis on England and Scotland. The book was highly influential in those countries and hel... ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/7 "2010-03-04T11:05:10Z")
From Wiki link > [@](#): > > **The material contained in the work is generally accurate, although selectively presented.** Sometimes he copied documents verbatim; sometimes he adapted them to his own use. Although both he and his contemporary readers were more credulous than most moderns, Foxe presented “lifelike and vivid pictures of the manners and feelings of the day, full of details that could never have been invented by a forger.”[23] Foxe’s method of using his sources “proclaims the honest man, the sincere seeker after truth.” Bolding mine ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/8 "2010-03-04T11:17:21Z")
The incident in question took place nearly 250 years after Foxe’s work was first published. The account above is from an addition by Ingram Cobbin for the 1856 edition. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/9 "2010-03-04T13:40:21Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Was there a follow up as to whether there was punishment upon the priests? Didn’t you read the rest of the story in my link? > [@](#): > > Col. Lehmanowsky said that the sight of these infernal engines of cruelty kindled the rage of the soldiers to fury. They declared that every inquisitor and soldier of the Inquisition should be put to torture. Their rage was ungovernable. The Colonel did not oppose them. They might have turned their arms against him if he had attempted to arrest their work. They began with the holy fathers. The first they put to death in the machine for breaking joints. The torture of the inquisitor, put to death by the dropping of water on his head, was most excruciating. The poor man cried out in agony to be taken from the fatal machine. The Inquisitor-General was brought before the infernal engine called “The Virgin.” He begged to be excused. “No!” said they, “you have caused others to kiss her, and now you must do it.” They interlocked their bayonets so as to form large forks, and with these they pushed him over the deadly circle. The beautiful image instantly prepared for the embrace, clasped him in its arms, and he was cut into innumerable pieces. Col. Lehmanowsky said he witnessed the torture of four of them; his heart sickened at the awful scene, and he left the soldiers to wreak their awful revenge on the last guilty inmates of that prison-house of hell. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/10 "2010-03-04T14:02:30Z")
They then proceeded to blow the monastery to hell with an oxcart full of gunpowder. According to Cobbin. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/11 "2010-03-04T14:24:59Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > According to Cobbin. Who is apparently full of shit about the whole thing, according to an [1855 debunking of the story](http://nq.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/issue_pdf/frontmatter_pdf/s1-XII/301.pdf): > [@](#): > > Hence it is here demonstrated, that the following assertions are untrue: > > 1. That a house of the Inquisition existed in 1809, with walls and turrets of solid construction, five miles from Madrid. > > 2. That it was defended by armed guards in the service of the Inquisitors. > > 3. That it was handsomely furnished, having also paintings and a library. > > 4. That the Inquisitor-General had his residence there. > > 5. That three regiments of French troops, under Marshal Soult, went to demolish it; and that they mined and blew it up, with a tremendous explosion. On the contrary, it is certain, that there never were more houses for the use of the Inquisition of Madrid than one, recently built in the Calle de Maria Cristina, No. 4. nuevo ; and another where the Inquisitor-General resided, still existing in the Calle de Torija, No. 14. nuevo, opposite the present residence of Lord Howden, the English ambassador. > > Firstly, D. F. A , Knight of the Order of Carlos III., &c. born, resident, and a proprietor in Madrid, aged sixty-four, living in the Plazuela, appeared before the judge and notary; declared tltat he understood the subject-matter, and offered his positive declaration, that the relation is false that there had been in 1809 a house of the Inquisition five miles distant from Madrid, neither at Chamartin, solidly constructed with walls and turrets, or defended by guards in the service of the Inquisitors. That it is untrue that three regiments of French troops went to demolish it, mining and blowing it up; because there never were more houses, for the use of the Inquisition of Madrid; than one, recently rebuilt in tlie Calle de Maria Cristina, No. 4. nuevo; and another, still retaining its ancient form, in .the Calle de Torija, No. 14. nuevo, where the Inquisitor-General lived; and this stands opposite the house now occupied by the English ambassador, Lord Howden. That as to the furniture, pictures, and library, he is ignorant; but if these were supposed to be in a house of the Inquisition five miles from Madrid, the assertion is fabulous; because there never existed such an one. That he can truly make this declaration, because, in the year 1809, he had been residing at Madrid from his birth; that he well knew the two buildings belonging to the Inquisition; and that he never saw the guards, or heard of the supposed demolition, which, if it had occurred, must have come to his knowledge : and this declaration, made under oath, being read over, he ratifies it. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/12 "2010-03-04T17:05:13Z")
Well played, **KimStu**! Ignorance fought and bested! Could you share, perchance, how you found the Notes and Queries article? So help me, if you googled the darned thing, I’m going to be rather dejected. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/13 "2010-03-04T17:53:52Z")
[The well-known story by Edgar Allen Poe, the Pit and the Pendulum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pit_and_the_Pendulum), describes a scenario like this. I wonder if that story has something to do with the persistence of this myth. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/14 "2010-03-04T18:26:44Z")
The actual Inquisitor-General at the time was Ramón Josef de Arce y Reynoso, Archbishop of Saragossa, who apparently resigned at the same time Carlos IV did, in March 1808, and died in Paris in 1814. So, the seat was actually vacant at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/15 "2010-03-04T18:28:26Z")
Thanks, **StusBlues**! Actually, I did google “Lehmanowsky Madrid Inquisition”, and the 1855 article was the third hit—I figured those would be sufficiently specific terms to pinpoint this particular story. The rest of the hits seem to be largely sites of antipopery cranks who are repeating Cobbin’s version of the story because they believe it really happened. Some of them are pretty funny. > [@Anne Neville](#): > > The well-known story by Edgar Allen Poe, the Pit and the Pendulum, describes a scenario like this. I wonder if that story has something to do with the persistence of this myth. I wouldn’t be at all surprised. Plus, it’s such a cracking good yarn, with all the salacious details about how the evil inquisitors were tortured with their own evil devices and all like that there. Not startling that antipopery cranks, of whom there are plenty around the interwebs, would still love it. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/napoleon-and-the-monastary-tale-true-false-dont-know/531237/16 "2010-03-04T19:06:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Plus, it’s such a cracking good yarn, with all the salacious details about how the evil inquisitors were tortured with their own evil devices and all like that there. Even without that part (which isn’t in _The Pit and the Pendulum_), in the hands of a writer like Poe, it’s still a good story. It also draws from [the Black Legend](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend), the story about how Spain was so much worse than England before modern times. That’s an attractive story to some people today who don’t like Hispanics, immigration from majority Hispanic countries, or hearing Spanish spoken in public places.