# NARAL...taking the low road. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 10, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431 "2005-08-10T12:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/41 "2005-08-10T17:40:25Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > Roberts is going to be confirmed. NARAL needs to learn how to choose their battles. I almost (when I’m in cynical mode) wonder if NARAL is occupying the loony fringe here on purpose (besides trying to impact this one SCOTUS nomination.) They give centrist or moderately liberal dems the opportunity to say “NARAL doesn’t speak for me…I’m willing to give the dude a fair hearing before making up my mind”. When the next SCOTUS nominee comes down the road in a year or two…they will have established their “reasonable” bona fides if she/he’s perceived as Bork 2.0. I’ts a bit too cynical for me to seriously believe…but there ya go. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/42 "2005-08-10T17:52:22Z")
I always thought they were pretty mellow because they smoked pot all day. Oh, wait, that’s NORML. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/43 "2005-08-10T17:52:42Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > I almost (when I’m in cynical mode) wonder if NARAL is occupying the loony fringe here on purpose (besides trying to impact this one SCOTUS nomination.) I think they are being extreme for a purpose, but I think it’s simply an attempt to stir up controversy, thereby gaining exposure. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/44 "2005-08-10T17:55:55Z")
BTW…if you haven’t actually seen the 30 second ad yet…amuse (or disgust) yourself [here](http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/Issues/supremecourt/loader.cfm?url=/commonspot/security/getfile.cfm&PageID=17767) The last sentence of the ad accuses Roberts of having an “ideology” that “leads him to excuse violence against other Americans". Actually what Judge Roberts said was “No matter how lofty or sincerely held the goal, those who resort to violence to achieve it are criminals.” (And…In one memo, Roberts argued that Reagan should not interfere in a Kentucky case involving the display of the Ten Commandments on public property. In the other, he wrote that the bomber of an abortion clinic should not receive any special consideration for a pardon.) [WaPo cite](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/04/AR2005080402032.html) NARAL is flat out lying in their ad. Those who would excuse the lying out of some “ends justify the means” nonsense should be ashamed of temselves. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/45 "2005-08-10T17:59:06Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think they are being extreme for a purpose, but I think it’s simply an attempt to stir up controversy, thereby gaining exposure. Oh I agree…they’re the PETA of their cause. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/46 "2005-08-10T18:01:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So you support NARAL’s tactics in this instance? I _accept_ NARAL’s tactics. They’re well within the accepted bounds of political discourse. I appreciate **Beagle Dave** ’s"FUCK YOU for deliberating taking that phrase out of context," but the fact remains these anti-abortion groups _are_ terrorist organizations, and they were at the time Robert’s worked for them. There’s nothing wrong with stating that publicly, or is there? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/47 "2005-08-10T18:16:22Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > …but the fact remains these anti-abortion groups _are_ terrorist organizations, and they were at the time Robert’s worked for them. There’s nothing wrong with stating that publicly, or is there? Roberts did not in fact work for them, so you’re either mistaken or lying yourself. Now, you can retract this statement if you wish, clarify what you might have _wanted_ to say, or let it stand. Your call. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/48 "2005-08-10T18:32:28Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Roberts did not in fact work for them, so you’re either mistaken or lying yourself. > > Now, you can retract this statement if you wish, clarify what you might have _wanted_ to say, or let it stand. Your call. Facts schmacts…NARAL has a greater calling doncha know!!! The Bray case did not even have anything to do with clinic bombings. In addition to the [factcheck.org](http://factcheck.org) cite, which is pretty comprehensive…I offer the following: [http://bench.nationalreview.com/archives/072324.asp](http://bench.nationalreview.com/archives/072324.asp) > [@](#): > > NARAL’s ad and press release give the false impression that the Bray case involved “bombings” and other forms of violence. What was instead at issue was the application of the Ku Klux Klan Act to trespassing and obstruction—unlawful conduct to be sure, but of the sort that is usually described by the Left as peaceful civil disobedience when carried out in support of causes that it favors. Indeed…to buttress that point… [http://bench.nationalreview.com/archives/072329.asp](http://bench.nationalreview.com/archives/072329.asp) > [@](#): > > Another amicus brief in Bray was submitted by 17 individuals such as Daniel Berrigan “who have been or are actively involved in the civil rights, anti-poverty, labor and peace movements” and who “share a common belief in the importance of nonviolent resistance to injustice.” That amicus brief, like Roberts’s submitted on behalf of the United States, sided with the position of the anti-abortion protesters that the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871 did not properly apply to their unlawful acts of trespass and obstruction. {Scooby Doo voice} \*\*Rut Ro kids…Daniel Berrigan and those peaceniks are ALSO in cohoots with the clininc bombers! \*\* {/Scooby Doo voice} And finally… [http://bench.nationalreview.com/archives/072569.asp](http://bench.nationalreview.com/archives/072569.asp) > [@](#): > > But the claims that abortion advocates presented in their civil action in the Bray case involved claims of trespass and obstruction, not bombings; Michael Bray was one of many defendants (not the lead plaintiff, and not the lead defendant); and the Bray who was the lead petitioner in the Supreme Court proceeding was Jayne Bray, not Michael. But like I said…facts/schmacts when it comes to the greater good I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/49 "2005-08-10T18:32:42Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Roberts did not in fact work for them, so you’re either mistaken or lying yourself. > > Now, you can retract this statement if you wish, clarify what you might have _wanted_ to say, or let it stand. Your call. Will you agree to change your name to **Mr. Nitpicky** for a day? Because you surely _are_ picking nits here. “Worked for” does have other meanings than “got his paycheck from.” I expect that most people already know that, why don’t you? > [@](#): > > Roberts helped craft the first Bush administration’s legal strategy against Roe v. Wade, the 1973 decision that made abortion legal nationwide. The administration urged the justices to overturn Roe. In a separate case, Roberts personally argued the administration’s position, siding with Operation Rescue and other demonstrators who blocked access to abortion clinics. The Supreme Court rebuffed the Bush administration’s position in the first case, affirming Roe v. Wade in 1992 and ruled for Operation Rescue in the latter. [here](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-07-19-roberts-cover_x.htm) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/50 "2005-08-10T18:35:13Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I _accept_ NARAL’s tactics. They’re well within the accepted bounds of political discourse. I appreciate **Beagle Dave** ’s"FUCK YOU for deliberating taking that phrase out of context," but the fact remains these anti-abortion groups _are_ terrorist organizations, and they were at the time Robert’s worked for them. There’s nothing wrong with stating that publicly, or is there? Hasn’t the ACLU defended the KKK’s right to march and speak and whatnot? Does that mean the ACLU supports the KKK, or does it mean that the ACLU supports civil liberties, even for oogie people? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/51 "2005-08-10T19:19:05Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Hasn’t the ACLU defended the KKK’s right to march and speak and whatnot? Does that mean the ACLU supports the KKK, or does it mean that the ACLU supports civil liberties, even for oogie people? **Judge Roberts, Every Bit as Good as the ACLU** I like that! Think it’ll play with the conservative base? I’ve not seen any evidence yet that Roberts would be a disastrous choice for justice. Sure his views on privacy and abortion need a little more scrutiny, and the white house needs to stop stonewalling on his papers, but have we ever had a supreme court nominee who didn’t raise a few hackles in everyone who took a good look at their legal history? Roberts work on behalf of the abortion clinic blockaders is fair game, as is his stance on abortion. The indignant howls from the right merely show that they would prefer to frame the issue soley in a fashion that puts their man in a good light. Standing up for civil rights is good. Standing up for terrorists is not. Roberts has done both. Do we want to confirm a cookie-cut out of a man to the supreme court, or would we rather evaluate the man himself? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/52 "2005-08-10T19:24:47Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I _accept_ NARAL’s tactics. They’re well within the accepted bounds of political discourse. I appreciate **Beagle Dave** ’s"FUCK YOU for deliberating taking that phrase out of context," but the fact remains these anti-abortion groups _are_ terrorist organizations, and they were at the time Robert’s worked for them. There’s nothing wrong with stating that publicly, or is there? Uh huh. Swift Boat Veterans For Truth. Do you _accept_ their tactics as well? ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/53 "2005-08-10T19:32:42Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > It’s par for the course for _all_ wingnuts. I agree, and maybe this is a distinction without a difference, but to my knowledge the Swifties only accused Kerry of lying about his military career and emphasized his accusations of US soldiers committing atrocities (an unpopular point among many veterans). However, NARAL is accusing Roberts of supporting the bombing of abortion clinics. In my book, the latter is much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/54 "2005-08-10T19:36:01Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > “Worked for” does have other meanings than “got his paycheck from.” I expect that most people already know that, why don’t you? From [Factcheck.org](http://Factcheck.org): “The ad also links Roberts to a “convicted clinic bomber.” … Whatever one thinks of Bray, Terry, or Operation Rescue, it is misleading to say that Roberts supported them. **He was not their attorney** ; the protestors had their own attorney, Jay Alan Sekulow, for that. Roberts argued **the government’s** position.” [http://www.factcheck.org/article340.html](http://www.factcheck.org/article340.html) I can only assume that you’re “working for” the forces of ignorance and political hackery. Probably for free, which is terrible, too. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/55 "2005-08-10T19:37:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Swift Boat Veterans For Truth. Do you _accept_ their tactics as well? They are what is. They, and their tactics are widely accepted. It turns out they’re very effective too. Any person or party that ignores that reality handicaps themselves in the mad scramble for power. Have you condemned the Swifties? Have Bush, Rove or Cheney? Why should any of us even try to be holier than they? Doing so sure won’t put the good guys in control of the country again. Then again, not looking into Roberts support of these demonstrators leaves us with a very two dimensional view of the man. Are you in favor of that? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/56 "2005-08-10T19:40:35Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > I agree, and maybe this is a distinction without a difference, … I _do_ think it’s a distinction without a difference. Both organizations are willing to distort the truth or outright lie in order to defame people in order to acheive their political goals; what they’ve chosen to lie about shouldn’t matter much (with the obvious exception of inconequential “white lies,” which ain’t the case with either group). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/57 "2005-08-10T19:55:34Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Have you condemned the Swifties? Yes. > [@](#): > > Have Bush, Rove or Cheney? Why should any of us even try to be holier than they? Because it’s the right thing to do. > [@](#): > > Then again, not looking into Roberts support of these demonstrators leaves us with a very two dimensional view of the man. Are you in favor of that? “Looking into” is fine. Lying about what is found after looking into it is not. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/58 "2005-08-10T20:21:56Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Standing up for civil rights is good. Standing up for terrorists is not. > Roberts has done both. Standing up for a terrorist’s civil rights is good. How has Roberts stood up for terrorists other than standing up for civil rights? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/59 "2005-08-10T20:27:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because it’s the right thing to do. For who? Are you saying that the party in charge of the country is doing wrong? Will you then help vote them out of office? No cabin in the mountains for you! This is a lie: > [@](#): > > Rumsfeld on WMD’s > They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. A few, perhaps overly broad words on a 30 second TV spot is not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/60 "2005-08-10T20:29:22Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I _accept_ NARAL’s tactics. They’re well within the accepted bounds of political discourse. Well, accepted by some, I suppose. Best case scenario here might be that the extreme Left learns the wrong lesson from losing the last couple of elections. Because with this kind of stuff from NARAL (“they started it! We get to lie too!”), the logical next step is for the left-wing extremists to try to engage in election fraud. Since, obviously, Bush and company did that too. Then they get caught (since conspiracy of the sort they so blithely assign to Karl Rove is virtually impossible to sustain), and some of the losers go to prison. And then maybe the Democratic party will purge itself of those more committed than they should be to embarassing themselves and their party, and lurches back towards the center. And I don’t necessarily think this kind of thing started with the Swift Boat veterans. It’s called Borking for a reason. I’m just saying. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431.md?page=4)