# NARAL...taking the low road. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 10, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431 "2005-08-10T12:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DarkPrince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DarkPrince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarkPrince)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/61 "2005-08-10T20:32:26Z")
I never really understood why slander/libel charges couldn’t be pressed against the most blatant and obvious lies the swift idiots and these fools throw around. 😕 > [@Bricker](#): > > Because it’s the right thing to do. As some people like to point out, doing “The Right Thing™” hasn’t been winning the dems any elections recently. If someone starts fighting dirty the best way to beat them is to fight dirtier than them. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/62 "2005-08-10T20:33:05Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Standing up for a terrorist’s civil rights is good. Well great. Aren’t you glad that NARAl’s informed you of Robert’s deeds? Would you have ever known, _without_ the ad? > [@](#): > > How has Roberts stood up for terrorists other than standing up for civil rights? Perhaps we’ll find out, if the administration ever releases the rest of his papers. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/63 "2005-08-10T20:33:20Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > **Judge Roberts, Every Bit as Good as the ACLU** The indignant howls from the right merely show that they would prefer to frame the issue soley in a fashion that puts their man in a good light. Please to explain…ALL of these folks are “from the right”? :dubious: -beagledave -Bricker -Mr Moto -factcheck.org -El Zagna -GLWasteful -Zeriel -jsgoddess -NurseCarmen -Harborwolf -Revtim -PsychoPirate -Metacom -Ravenman -John Mace -Larry Borgia -EddyTeddyFreddy -Maus Magill Ooo ooo I get it… **lying** about **THIS** is “well within the accepted bounds of political discourse” also, right? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/64 "2005-08-10T20:34:31Z")
So, **DarkPrince** , stuffed any ballot boxes lately? 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/65 "2005-08-10T20:41:03Z")
> [@GLWasteful](#): > > Perhaps I missed it, what with my busy social calendar, but what election did the Swifties win? > > Because as I recall, Bush won the election. Are you trying to claim _his_ win to justify _their_ lies? Sounds sorta spotty to me, but to each his own. > > Waste Oh, I think it’s a load of steaming bullshit. Fact of the matter is, though, there’s plenty of people on this board (and at least one in this thread) whose opinion can quite succintly be summed up as “A victorious election justifies anything”. 'sall I was saying. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/66 "2005-08-10T20:46:26Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Well great. Aren’t you glad that NARAl’s informed you of Robert’s deeds? Would you have ever known, _without_ the ad? I can’t figure out what you think I’ve learned from the ad. Roberts is very probably anti abortion rights in his personal belief. He was employed by Republican administrations and argued cases that also were the side of, or at least leaned toward, anti abortion rights. The fact that some slimy disgusting people are anti abortion rights, and even the fact that some of said slimy disgusting people might benefit in certain ways from certain of his arguments is not news. If Roberts makes it to the SC and that court were to overturn Roe, I wouldn’t say that he was “supporting terrorists” by doing so. Would you? That his interests, at least as a lawyer, have coincided with the interests of some slimy disgusting people does not make him complicit when they go blow up an abortion clinic or do something else slimy and disgusting. The ACLU isn’t supporting terrorism if they support the KKK’s right to march, even if the KKK is a terrorist organization (which I would argue it is). ---
**Author:** ![DarkPrince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DarkPrince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarkPrince)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/67 "2005-08-10T20:47:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, **DarkPrince** , stuffed any ballot boxes lately? > > 😃 Mmmmmaaybe… 😛 FWIW, I’m not standing up for either the swifties or NARAL. But I do think that if someone’s opposition _is_ winning elections by lying through their teeth/voting with dead people/etc, and they’re not being caught or stopped… then you damn well better start cheating like they do if you plan on beating them anytime in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/68 "2005-08-10T20:50:08Z")
I did get a chuckle out of how NARAL is trying to weasle their way out of the statements made in the ad. From [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/10/sr.weds/)… > [@](#): > > But later in the press conference, Keenan was pressed by reporters to explain why, if she said NARAL was not “suggesting” that “Roberts condones or supports clinic violence,” the ad says that Roberts’ “ideology leads him to excuse violence.” > > Keenan was asked, “Aren’t “condone” and “excuse” the same thing?” > > She responded, “I think there’s a difference with the…the brief that he filed was purely discretionary. And I think that is why when he, as the government, came in and he, as a political appointee, as deputy Solicitor General, said that the law did not cover as a civil rights law that protects those of us as Americans, that it did not cover the violence, or the groups in protecting women’s lives in these clinics. So again, this was a way that he proactively …proactively …went and supported these groups that were perpetrating violence against women’s clinics.” > > Keenan was pressed again, “So does he condone clinic violence or does he not?” > > Her response, “Again, I don’t think he does condone clinic violence. We are not saying that…” > > Keenan was interrupted with another question, “but you say he excuses it.” {translation} Ummm we SUPPOSE that Roberts doesn’t “condone” violence…but he is a bad bad man, and if we can, you know (wink wink, say no more) kinda get away with “hinting” that he “excuses violence” which is DIFFERENT…yes DIFFERENT I say…Did we forget to mention that Roberts is a misogynist, patriarchal bad bad man? Say LOOK! Shiny object right over there ===\> {/translation} ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/69 "2005-08-10T20:53:22Z")
> [@DarkPrince](#): > > Mmmmmaaybe… 😛 > FWIW, I’m not standing up for either the swifties or NARAL. But I do think that if someone’s opposition _is_ winning elections by lying through their teeth/voting with dead people/etc, and they’re not being caught or stopped… then you damn well better start cheating like they do if you plan on beating them anytime in the near future. I’m glad the Democrats didn’t react that way to Watergate. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/70 "2005-08-10T20:56:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s called Borking for a reason. You’re not actually trying to equate Roberts with Bork are you? Because I don’t think that doing so is either a good idea or fair to Roberts. And **Merijeek** : A thousand pardons, then. Waste ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/71 "2005-08-10T20:58:03Z")
> [@GLWasteful](#): > > You’re not actually trying to equate Roberts with Bork are you? I’m not; NARAL is. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/72 "2005-08-10T20:58:41Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > {translation} > Say LOOK! Shiny object right over there ===\> > {/translation} Probably one of those “few **bad apples** ” back from their mission at Abu Ghraib. Was it wearing a secret medal? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/73 "2005-08-10T21:02:40Z")
If you needed more evidence that NARAL were giant arseholes, you’re a silly person. This is exactly the sort of tactic that more and more politicians have mastered into a fine art: give an incredibly simple and incomplete slice of an issue in such a way as to grossly misrepresent what is going on. Voted for it before voting against it was pretty much EXACTLY the same sort of lie (stating some vague events without presenting any of the actual reasoning, and then drawing an unwarranted conclusion about motives). I can’t tell you how glad I am to see Bricker and Shodan standing proud against such tactics and deceptive ads. Now gentlemen, we can fight together to try and heal this great nation! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/74 "2005-08-10T21:16:20Z")
> [@DarkPrince](#): > > I never really understood why slander/libel charges couldn’t be pressed against the most blatant and obvious lies the swift idiots and these fools throw around. 😕 I agree. In fact, a search will reveal that before the 2004 election, I suggested Senator Kerry sue the SBVFT for their libelous crap. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/75 "2005-08-10T21:33:50Z")
For those making the comparison, I would point out one thing. I am speaking as a moderate-conservative (one who believes in abortion rights, which I do not consider a factor in liberal-conservative politics): NARAL exists to promote abortion rights. They do a lot of work beyond this little stunt. This present event is a fiasco, but does not diminish the work they do on a regular basis towards abortion rights. Some have actually accused NARAL of pussyfooting and ignoring threats to abortion rights. SBVFT, by comparison, was a one-shot political tool with a single purpose: To distort the record of Kerry. I don’t like Kerry. But I will say that the tactics of the Swifties made me wince more than this tactic of NARAL. I know people who frankly should have known better using the Swifties work long after it had been discredited. It was flagrant manipulation, the sole purpose of that organization. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/76 "2005-08-11T13:14:13Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Probably one of those “few **bad apples** ” back from their mission at Abu Ghraib. Was it wearing a secret medal? 😉 You are doing more to push me away from the Democratic Party than anything the SBVFT has ever done. Stop hurting the liberal movement with your insane douchebaggery. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/77 "2005-08-11T13:44:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’m glad the Democrats didn’t react that way to Watergate. > > Regards, > Shodan Well, Shodan, in Watergate we caught/impeached the perps responsible. The system worked. It hasn’t been working wrt to the Bush administration, however. They just keep getting away with it, year after year. I agree with you that it would be good to put many members of the current Administration in jail, but failing that, the Dems have to protect themselves against a corrupt regime. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/78 "2005-08-11T13:46:29Z")
> [@DarkPrince](#): > > FWIW, I’m not standing up for either the swifties or NARAL. But I do think that if someone’s opposition _is_ winning elections by lying through their teeth/voting with dead people/etc, and they’re not being caught or stopped… then you damn well better start cheating like they do if you plan on beating them anytime in the near future. If someone else has to cheat to beat me, I’ve already won. If I have to cheat to win, I’ve already lost. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/79 "2005-08-11T13:48:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Uh huh. > > Swift Boat Veterans For Truth. Do you _accept_ their tactics as well? Bricker, are you saying that the abortion clinic bombers didn’t get public support from some well-known anti-abortion groups? And who knows what kind of support out of the public eye? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/80 "2005-08-11T14:02:49Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You are doing more to push me away from the Democratic Party than anything the SBVFT has ever done. Cool! the last thing the party needs is more whiny dudes who’d rather support torturers than get their hands dirty in the realities of Bush era politics. Go back to the 90’s where you belong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431.md?page=5)