# NARAL...taking the low road. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 10, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431 "2005-08-10T12:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/141 "2005-08-12T15:15:23Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Let’s wait for the results of Robert’s slander suit before jumping to conclusions as to who is lying. He _is_ filing suit isn’t he? Instead of insinuating something, how about you stand right up and declare exactly what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/142 "2005-08-12T16:20:24Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > And the mainstream democrat base will vote for … whom? Badnarik or Nader. Or Bush. Or a minor Dem candidate who doesn’t lie like a fucking Rove-wannabe. > [@Squink](#): > > and the great liberal truth brigades start barking like Pavlov’s dogs. Blow it out your ass. A lie is a lie, regardless of who says it. NARAL and SBVFT are the same here–unsubstantiated bullshit, provably bullshit bullshit, and half-truths and innuendo. And I’m not listening to either of them. Honestly, if you’re offended by the fact I’m calling bullshit on propoganda instead of supporting it just because it’s supposedly ‘liberal’, get the FUCK out of my side of the political spectrum. > [@Evil Captor](#): > > We liberals, admitting that NARAL has stretched the truth fairly extensively, are just arguing that it’s acceptable to use the Pubbies’ own tactics against them. I’d like to remind everyone else that “we liberals” don’t accept a word of NARAL’s bullshit, although I won’t speak for individual fascists who are pretending to be liberal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/143 "2005-08-12T16:44:50Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > None of these organizations ever admits to lying. Pulling the ad is the best we can reasonably expect, I think. And they did pull it, which is more than I can say for some other orgs. Absoultely. There’s no point in trying to get any advocacy group to admit to “lying”. Ain’t gonna happen. The system, such as it is, seems to have worked well this time. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/144 "2005-08-12T17:07:48Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > [Looks like pressure from honest people on all sides of the debate worked. Maybe, except for this little ditty from your cite: > [@](#): > > Conservatives and Roberts supporters have been calling all week for NARAL to pull the advertisement. By most measures I am a liberal, and certainly pro-choice, yet I have sent NARAL two scathing emails, one criticizing for the ad to begin with and another criticizing their disingenuous reason for pulling it. It’s not just conservatives who are pissed and have demanded that the ad be pulled. I just wish the media would give us liberals credit for showing some principle. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/145 "2005-08-12T17:10:13Z")
> [@El Zagna](#): > > Maybe, except for this little ditty from your cite… > …By most measures I am a liberal, and certainly pro-choice, yet I have sent NARAL two scathing emails, one criticizing for the ad to begin with and another criticizing their disingenuous reason for pulling it. It’s not just conservatives who are pissed and have demanded that the ad be pulled. I just wish the media would give us liberals credit for showing some principle. How is that disagreeing with what **Moto** said? You’ve shown that folks on the right (Roberts supporters) and folks on the left (yourself) exerted pressure; doesn’t that constitute, more or less, all sides of the debate? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/146 "2005-08-12T17:13:08Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > How is that disagreeing with what **Moto** said? You’ve shown that folks on the right (Roberts supporters) and folks on the left (yourself) exerted pressure; doesn’t that constitute, more or less, all sides of the debate? What **Mr. Moto** said was correct. The line from the cite only mentioned the right. I imagine that it was the left’s reaction that caused the ad to be pulled. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/147 "2005-08-12T17:20:12Z")
Yes, I wasn’t disagreeing with Moto but rather with the article’s implication that only the right protested. I wasn’t very clear. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/148 "2005-08-12T17:30:58Z")
No problem–I hadn’t read the article, and was being both clueless and lazy. Thanks for the clarification! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/149 "2005-08-12T20:20:21Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > If you lie and cheat to try to swing moderates and dumbasses to your side, you are going to lose your mainstream democrat base > > And the mainstream democrat base will vote for … whom? They’ll think about that when they get to the polls. If the line isn’t too long. And if it’s not raining. And if there’s nothing good on TV that day. And if they don’t remember some errand. And if… ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/150 "2005-08-12T23:20:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Best case scenario here might be that the extreme Left learns the wrong lesson from losing the last couple of elections. Because with this kind of stuff from NARAL (“they started it! We get to lie too!”), the logical next step is for the left-wing extremists to try to engage in election fraud. Since, obviously, Bush and company did that too. Then they get caught (since conspiracy of the sort they so blithely assign to Karl Rove is virtually impossible to sustain), and some of the losers go to prison. Next step? Election rigging is as American as apple pie, and it’s a bipartisan pastime. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/151 "2005-08-12T23:35:11Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > No admission of lying. Did you think they would? Doing so might have left them vulnerable to legal action. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/152 "2005-08-12T23:42:19Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Next step? Election rigging is as American as apple pie, and it’s a bipartisan pastime. [GOP pays legal bills in vote-thwart case](http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/12362334.htm) > [@](#): > > The Republican Party says it still has a zero-tolerance policy for tampering with voters even as it pays the legal bills for a former Bush campaign official charged with conspiring to thwart Democrats from voting in New Hampshire. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/153 "2005-08-12T23:45:47Z")
That’s somewhat incriminating, **Squink** , but it’s also a case of guilt-by-association, and even your quote note that it’s someone _accused of_ a crime. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/154 "2005-08-13T00:02:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Did you think they would? Doing so might have left them vulnerable to legal action. Nope…I was just putting their “ad pulling” in perspective. They get more credit from me than the Swifties, but it’s not like NARAL did anything honorable, either. They were becoming a liability to their cause and didn’t have much choice at that point but to yank it. They **could** have said that the debate over their ad was becoming a distraction and left it at that. To say “We regret that many people have misconstrued our recent advertisement about Mr. Roberts’ record” makes it sound like it’s the fault of the viewers. Not exactly honest, either IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/155 "2005-08-13T00:04:41Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [GOP pays legal bills in vote-thwart case](http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/12362334.htm) Hey **Squink** , do you have any intention of answering the question that I’ve asked of you…TWICE? I’ll refresh again from my earlier post… > [@](#): > > I noticed you punted…so I’ll give you another chance. > > You claim that we can’t “jump to conclusions” about whether NARAL lied because Roberts hasn’t sued yet. > > Do you apply the same standard to whether the Swifties lied? IOW…since Kerry did not sue, we can’t know if the Swifties lied? Yes or no, will you apply the same standard of “we don’t really know if they lied, cuz there ain’t been a libel suit” to the Swifities? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/156 "2005-08-13T00:25:46Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > Hey **Squink** , do you have any intention of answering the question that I’ve asked of you…TWICE? Why would I? You just want to beat me with whatever answer I give. If you’re going to play the avenging moralist, you’ll have to work out the right answer on your own. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/157 "2005-08-13T00:36:21Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Why would I? You just want to beat me with whatever answer I give. If you’re going to play the avenging moralist, you’ll have to work out the right answer on your own. Wow…what a fucking coward you are. **You** make the statement (unprovoked) … > [@](#): > > Let’s wait for the results of Robert’s slander suit before jumping to conclusions as to who is lying. He is filing suit isn’t he? It’s obvious that your standard for judging these folks to be LYING depends on the outcome of a slander suit. Yet you won’t use the same standard on a group that produced…errrr what was that phrase you used…Oh yes “vile accusations”, because you’re afraid that I’ll “beat you with whatever answer you give”? Lets see…so far in this one thread alone…You have - defended liars - deliberately distorted a cite that I used ( a form of lying, of course ) - Used a ridiculous standard to measure whether NARAL was lying (they’re only LYING if they lose a slander suit) …even though you won’t use that SAME standard against people that spread “vile accusations”…ummm which are lies, right? - Pussied out (twice) of answering a question about the above because your widdle feelings might get hurt. What a lying coward you are. :wally ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/158 "2005-08-13T00:45:47Z")
Actually I think I’ll save that response…it makes a fantastic signature. . . . . ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/159 "2005-08-13T00:48:07Z")
> [@beagledave](#): > > Actually I think I’ll save that response…it makes a fantastic signature. > . > . > . > . ## Pretty much sums it all up nicely…doncha think? **beagledave** :Hey Squink, do you have any intention of answering the question that I’ve asked of you? **Squink** :[Why would I? You just want to beat me with whatever answer I give.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6469033&postcount=156) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431/160 "2005-08-13T01:05:45Z")
Yeah **beagledave** , Now you are masturbating like a motherFuck! Enjoy yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/naral-taking-the-low-road/316431.md?page=9)