Amen! I saw the trailer last week at Star Wars. My friends and I squeaked through the entire thing - ‘look, mermaids! oooh, wardrobe!’ and then a long ‘oooooh’ when Aslan appeared.
I never picked up on the Christian stuff as a kid. I still don’t, really. I’m pretty dense like that.
Why is a story being a Christian allegory a bad thing?
Add a mane to this guy and you’d have a perfect Aslan, with none of those CGI costs. OK a couple of child actors may get eaten, but sacrifice for your art and all that.
Preachy is bad in any story. Think of any time a sitcom has done ‘a very special episode’ warning us about the dangers of drugs.
Not all of us are Christian. This tends to increase the sensation of being preached at. We also don’t want our kids preached at by members of another religion.
C’tian allegory isn’t necessarily preachy. It’s best when it isn’t & obviously, the fact that a lot of people missed the allegory as kids shows that it’s not preachy.
if you’re gonna shelter yourself & your kids from anything with C’tian overtones, be prepared to miss out on a lot of Western classic literature
Heck, the first Star Wars, E.T., Lord of the Rings- might as well throw them out also. THo in the first two, the analogies were somewhat accidental & in the latter, it wasn’t exactly an allegory.
And then there is the New Agey stuff in a lot of cartoons & Disney fantasies- oh, but it’s only the nutty C’tians who object to that being preached to their kids.
Well, the fact that I wasn’t raised as a Christian might have had a bit to do with why I missed it.
Who said anything about sheltering their kids? My kid likes to read the Bible, so he does, even though I’m not Christian. I fully intend to take him to see this, heavy-handed Christian allegory or no.
And a case could be made that all of these are hero journeys, which far predates Christianity. I see just as much Osiris in E.T. as Christ. More, in fact, as Osiris had a soul-mate who put him back together again and brought him back to life with love, just as E.T. did in Elliot.
Someone pee in your Cheerios this morning? All I was expressing a wish for, for my own personal self and no one else, not even my children, was a little less OVERT Christianity and less pagan bashing. Not because I’m insulted or sheltering anyone, just because I think it’s a better story and I enjoy it more when it’s subtle.
I also dislike overt sentimentality or obvious forshadowing in mysteries. I like to get lost in the story, not notice storytelling or moviemaking tricks.
I didn’t say it was.
[QUOTE[It’s best when it isn’t & obviously, the fact that a lot of people missed the allegory as kids shows that it’s not preachy.[/QUOTE]
Preachy is in the eye of the beholder. Not having read TLTW&TW recently, I currently can’t say whether I find it preachy or not. (Having reread ScrewTape just this past week, I find it surprisingly un-preachy. I attribute this to Lewis’ skill in giving Screwtape his own voice, and to the fact that the message of the letters usually must be mentally reversed by the reader in order to see the message Lewis wanted to convey.)
(QUOTE)if you’re gonna shelter yourself & your kids from anything with C’tian overtones, be prepared to miss out on a lot of Western classic literature(/QUOTE)
I wouldn’t shelter my kids from everything with Christian overtones.
You’re going to have to back up that statement. Also, do you mean the first film or the first trilogy?
I could just as easily claim that Ep4 has Jewish overtones. A simple boy is plucked from his home in the desert and with the help of a great unseen power which runs through all things destroys a mighty giant by striking its only vulnerable spot. Or does the story of David and Goliath have Christian overtones I’ve missed?
If you mean Ep4-6, I don’t see Jesus killing people with a lightsaber, or instructing his servant to tell the Ewoks ‘I C-3PO am a god!’
It’s been a while since I’ve seen ET. You may have a point here. Then again, I can also see it working as the story of Isis and Osiris (despite the fact that Eliot does not revive ET through sexual intercourse)
We’ve had many threads on the symbolism of LOTR. The short version-the imagery and vocabulary are Norse/Teutonic, but the themes are Christian (especially the concept of grace).
I never said I’d throw out anything showing Christian overtones.
OTOH, Leaf By Niggle was.
So, who’s anxious to see the movie, and not overly concerned with any underlying messages it may contain?
I really want to see Mr. and Mrs. Beaver. Has anyone seen a picture of them? As the first of the sentient animals to greet the humans they are my favorites. In 1999 I did a gingerbread version of the castle of Cair Paravel, for a local exhibition, and in one corner of the display I had a frozen stream, with a beaver lodge. The B’s were standing at the edge of the stream, which I lined with teeny pine trees. Just one tree was missing, chewed off to decorate the top of the lodge which was sticking out of the ice.
This movie is the first in a long time I’ve actually looked forward to.
I was brought up in a Christian household, although I am not particularly observant now (in any use of that word, I suppose). When I was a child, the whole Christian allegory went right over my head, especially the significance of the ending of The Last Battle. It was only when I was in High School (and a rebellious young man) that the whole significance struck me, and it is a credit to Lewis’ writing that this did not in the least shake my love for these books. Nor does it now, these many years later. I think that this, in part, was because Lewis was well learned in the same ancient mythology that was partly responsible in shaping Christianity (as was Tolkien, for that matter). The old stories are the best stories…
For example, in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, the White Witch makes reference “what is written in letters deep as a spear is long on the trunk of the World Ash Tree”. I believe that annotated copies of The Narnian Chronicles show that the wording in Lewis’ original text was actually much closer to descriptions of Yggdrasil. (By the way, notice the carving on the wardrobe.) Lewis introduces us to any number of mythologic (and pagan) creatures, not all of whom are on the side of evil. And if you have a copy of Aesop’s Fables, look at the chapter headings. Some of them are practically an outline of “The Last Battle” (“The Ass in the Lion’s Skin”, “The Ape Chosen King”). To my mind, Christianity was an element in his fiction, but these weren’t Bible stories.
While Christianity was of supreme importance to Lewis, as it was to Chesterton, I’ve never found that either of them oversold it in their writings. I always felt that Lewis struck the right balance, and I hope that the director is able to do the same.
Although I understand the questions of Lewis’ sexism, I always thought that, as a rule, the girls stood out much better than the boys (excepting Peter, of course). As far as racism, the Calmorenes come off rather badly in A Horse and His Boy. (Just as the Southrons don’t come off particularly well in TLOTR). But in The Last Battle, Lewis (through Aslan) seems to make the point that honesty and nobility of spirit is more important than Whomever one worships.
And yes, I seem to recall that Lewis did say something like “I never set out to write a children’s story. I just wrote stories that I would have wanted to read as a child”. Probably have that remembered incorrectly, but more children’s writers should take that advice anyway.
Random thoughts: I too thought that the White Witch had black hair, although perhaps with streaks of white or grey. I don’t know why, perhaps I’m confusing her with Lily Munster. And I thought that Lewis’ descriptions of Lucy and Susan had them blonde and dark, respectively, although I think that Pauline Baynes reversed that in her illustrations.
Just wondering if the director had also simultaneously filmed further episodes a la TLOTR? Or are we going to have to wait two or three years between episodes? That could be tough…
best to all,
plynck
[hijack]
Well, considering that Christians are really just Jews Plus, the answer to your question would apparently be “yes.”
[/hijack]
As for the movie – I’ve only seen the one trailer, but Susan especially looks perfect. She reminds me a little of the young woman who played Violet Baudelaire in the Lemony Snicket movie.
Looking at my copy, grown-up Susan is described as having black har, while Lucy’s is golden. In the pictures, Lucy and the White Witch both have dark hair. In the picture of the children eating with the Beavers, Edmund is the only one who looks blond.
I am so excited for this movie. The Narnia was my absolute favorite books for many, many years. Edmund (in Prince Caspian and Dawn Treader) was one of my first literary crushes.
I never read all the books, but I read a couple back in the early 1970’s. I remember liking the stories, but being annoyed by the obvious Christian allegory (having become an agnostic when I was ten). But that doesn’t matter if it’s a good story; maybe I’ll find the books and give them another try. I see them sometimes in used book stores – but I bet there’ll be a handsome new edition in conjunction with the movie, like there was with Lord of the Rings.
(Now as for female fighters – maybe somebody will do a Jirel of Joiry movie…)
[/Hijack] I’d love to see a photo of your gingerbread castle, Baker. [/end hijack]
I have to agree that the trailer looks really promising. I *loved *these books when I was a kid, before I figured out they were a Christian allegory,
and I even had a map of Narnia on my bedroom wall. Mmm… Turkish Delight! I can’t even buy it, I just eat it all.
There’s a recent book that’s done in the same way as The Screwtape Letters, which you might want to check out if you were disappointed about how good the Screwtape Letters was.
The book is called Lord Foulgrin’s Letters, and it’s by Randy Alcorn. Unlike Screwtape, it’s fairly preachy. But at least the author said in the foreword that the book is entirely fallible.
Just saying in case you wanted to see an example of that type of book done less well. There’s also a sequel, but I don’t remember what it’s called.
My quotes your responding to is from my response to DocC. I didn’t mean to share the peed Cheerios your way!
The Osiris-ET parallel is really good. And I’m quite familiar with the Hero Journey/Campbellian influence on Lucas when writing SW.
Anyway, rest assured that TLTW&TW C’nity should be subtle & there will be no pagan-bashing. heck, ol’ CSL considered himself half-pagan anyway (not many C’tian apologists would admit to feeling like worshipping Apollo in old Grecian ruins & then adding he though Christ would understand if he had.)
You did not just go there! :eek: 
Off to GD!
I keed! I keed!
heck, I might just start a discussion there on that! Gotta think about it.
Agreed with most of you here that I think Tilda is the perfect choice to play the white witch. When i saw her image in the preview, I was stunned - the makeup, costume, everything is so incredible. Anyway, i think she’s a great actress - did you see this recent interview with her about the movie?
I tried to get a look at Mr. and Mrs. Beaver in the trailer too, but you only saw them for a split second.
Who does everyone think will be the voice of Aslan now that Brian Cox is out?